MMA Thread

[AHM]

Anyone have a feed for this on Saturday? Also, what time is it going to be stateside?

[AHM]

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[jime23]

PRIDE Open-Weight Grand Prix (2nd Round) Results

Pawel Nastula def. Edson Drago - Submission (Armbar) 4:33 R1
Yoshihiro Nakao def. Eun Su Lee - TKO (Doctor's stoppage) 4:16 R1
Vitor Belfort def. Yoshiki Takahashi – KO 0:36 R1
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira def. Alistair Overeem - TKO (Corner threw in towel) 2:13 R2
Kazuhiro Nakamura def. Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos - Submission (Kimura) 4:49 R1
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira def. Fabricio Werdum - Unanimous Decision
Wanderlei Silva def. Kazuyuki Fujita - TKO (Corner threw in towel) 9:21 R1
Josh Barnett def. Mark Hunt - Submission (Kimura) 2:02 R1
Mirko Filipovic def. Hidehiko Yoshida - TKO (Corner threw in towel) 7:38 R1

[BudmanCardsfan]

I do not watch Pride very often, but it is nice to see Vitor with a quick knockout, hopefully he can get back to what he once was.

[St. Jimmy]

Picks, comments, discussion:

I got Ortiz by KO, first round and Silvya by decision. I was gonna get the webcast but 40 bucks is a bit steep.

[Boriqua]

oh man tito slammed the shit outa ken. and threw 5-7 unanswered elbows in kens face. No questionable stoppage. ken wasnt protecting himself.

idk i still feel the pitbull and the maniac ant gona go to the distance. someone is getting KOed or Tapped Out

[Bastardized]

Ortiz and Shamrock was a joke. Ortiz was pounding on Ken, but Ken was far from out. He was still turning his head and trying to get his arms in. No, I don't particularly like either fighter, but when you pay money for a fight, you want a fight.

Sylvia and Orlovski (sp?) sat there titty pinching each other for 5 rounds. Syliva won by decision.

A fucking waste of 40$. The best fight was Berkman and Neer. Little guys fight til they're burger. It's just really sad when your "best submission" of the night is for a fight that didn't make the PPV.

[TuRTtle]

wow what an anti climatic piece of shit. Tito wins after elbowing Shamrock 4 times, while he is in shamrocks gaurd? fuck...give me a break, you don't end a main event like that. Fuck. then sylvia and andrei just danced around and jabbed at each other...for 5 rounds. As much as they hyped that up, what a let down, i got blue balls.

Yeah, I know Ken would not have turned it around and it probably would have ended a minute later. But damn, atleast let it play out

[Just Not Me]

I was pissed off as well (at first), but after watching it again, all Shamrock had to do was raise his hands. That would have kept the fight going. But another 5 elbows to shamrock's head like that, and he's receiving coloring books as christmas presents for the rest of his life.

The heavyweight match sucked a big dick. Arlovski was scared to shoot for a Takedown, and Sylvia was glad of it.

[Mr. Mays]

"wow what an anti climatic piece of shit."

Exactly what I said. Word for word.

The Shamrock/Ortiz fight was called off for no reason at all. The ref should have given it atleast 7 more seconds and let is play out. I was so fucking pissed, and I don't blame the people that payed $500 in the crowd for booing.

The Main event sucked even worse, I sat there for 25 minutes wondering if there was ever going to be anything to make it a memorable match. The answer was no. You know you're giving a horrible match when you hear the fans booing and the ref has to tell you to fight.

Another thing that pissed me off is that I didn't get to see Munson fight. I saw at the end that he won his match, but that dude is a beast and I've been waiting for him to climb up the ranks. You know a fucker means business when he has a bar code on his head and a USSR anchor on his arm.

[Dornuss]

I was also pissed the Perosh - Monson fight wasn't shown. Good win for Monson though. I train with Perosh and he was in awesome shape for this fight and had a good game plan. From what i have heard and seen he was simply out classed. He is pretty much the best guy coming out of Australia at the momment. Monson deserves to be on the main card.

The rest of the card was crap. Was there really any doubt after Shamrock v Tito number one. Ken really needs to retire. Sylvia v Andre deserved a rematch after a win each, but Sylvia is one hell of a boring fighter, who pretty much just backpedled using his huge reach.

However, can't wait for Silva to step in and sort out the men from the boys.

[St. Jimmy]

The Shamrock/Ortiz stoppage did seem kinda early. It was over, Tito had it won anyway. I think Dean just wanted to protect Shamrock from becoming a drooling lump. Ortiz had it won, it was just a matter of time. Oh well, such is life and now we can move on from the whole rivalry thing.

[what it thizz]

Very dissapointing UFC, a waste of 40 dollars. The highlight for me was when Yves got his head cracked open in the second round, that was savage how he still wanted to fight even though he was drenched in his own blood.
Ortiz/Shamrock was depressing, I was so fired up for that fight, and it killed the intensity for the rest of the fights for me. And Sylvia/Pittbull was irritating to watch, mainly because Arlovski (sp?) couldn't get in that many cuts because of Slyvia's reach, and both fighters ended up playing defensively.
Afterthought: Does anyone else think Sylvia looks like Farva from Super Troopers?

[Thrillhouse]

The main events were a joke. Especially Ortiz/Shamrock. I just got a chance to watch the whole thing, and I'm still sitting here in disbelief that the fight was stopped so early. Shamrock was far from out. If he had taken another 3-4 elbows, then maybe I could agree, but the decision there was terrible. To me, it didn't seem that he was effectively blocking the strikes, but he also wasn't incapable of defending himself yet. Terrible.

The Sylvia/Arlovski fight was a letdown too. Bastardized has it right: they just sat there and titty-punched for 30 minutes. I think both of them were afraid of catching the other one's money punch, and the fight was basically decided in the 5th round. It was more or less tied until then, and Sylvia just had a better round. Arlovski should have taken it to the ground. Or at least tried. A couple of takedown attempts probably would have won him that fight.

[Bizznatch]

Arlovski should have stayed with the leg kicks and then taken him to the ground once he was on unsure ground. It seemed like he really hurt him early in the first round with the 3rd or 4th kick (the one that hit him right behind the knee).

Ken wasen't really defending himself at all. His hands were low and something like that is a tough call. I think that they stopped it too early, but you never know, one more elbow and he could be sucking food through a straw for the rest of his life.

[clkx88]

For anyone who missed the fights, Ortiz/Shamrock, Arlovski/Sylvia (try to have about 8 hours to devote to sleep), and Edwards/Stevenson are up on dailymotion.com. Just search for UFC 61.

[PJR808]

Ken wasen't really defending himself at all. His hands were low and something like that is a tough call. I think that they stopped it too early, but you never know, one more elbow and he could be sucking food through a straw for the rest of his life.


I tend to agree with this, could have gone a bit longer, but the person everyone should be mad at is Shamrock. He looked unprepared as usual, and he thinks he can still go in any fight and just bang it out. When he was eating elbows, he was just lying there with his arms protecting the side of his head, not his face. He's a fucking idiot, and he fucked the fight up. He should know by now that if you don't defend yourself at all times, the fight will be stopped. He didn't - end of fight.

[MikeT]

I tend to agree with this, could have gone a bit longer, but the person everyone should be mad at is Shamrock. He looked unprepared as usual, and he thinks he can still go in any fight and just bang it out. When he was eating elbows, he was just lying there with his arms protecting the side of his head, not his face. He's a fucking idiot, and he fucked the fight up. He should know by now that if you don't defend yourself at all times, the fight will be stopped. He didn't - end of fight.

It is really quite sad that a man of his age and experience fights like he's a rookie. Unless Dana is going to schedule a Gracie-Shamrock hall of fame match, I don't think Ken deserves another chance in the ring.

[Thrillhouse]

I tend to agree with this, could have gone a bit longer, but the person everyone should be mad at is Shamrock. He looked unprepared as usual, and he thinks he can still go in any fight and just bang it out. When he was eating elbows, he was just lying there with his arms protecting the side of his head, not his face. He's a fucking idiot, and he fucked the fight up. He should know by now that if you don't defend yourself at all times, the fight will be stopped. He didn't - end of fight.

I agree with this a little bit, but I still think it was stopped too early. Ken WAS being lazy with his guard, but he wasn't incapable of defending himself. That's when the ref is supposed to step in, not jump the gun like last night. Shamrock ate a few elbows, but he looked like he was realizing how much they hurt, and was on his way back to defending himself properly, but too late, end of fight. I feel like I've seen people take flurries that were a lot worse, and that I thought were going to get stopped, but it never happened.

The last couple of fights I saw with him though, have been incredibly sloppy. You're right, he does think he can just go into a fight and bang it out, which is obviously not the case because he gets tired right away. Someone more knowledgeable like garbanzobean might be able to elaborate, but I was watching him fight in Pride, and he just gave up in a fight (while on his feet) because he was too tired. That's just unacceptable from a "pro" fighter.

Ken hurt my heart. I was really rooting for him.

[Dornuss]

Someone more knowledgeable like garbanzobean might be able to elaborate, but I was watching him fight in Pride, and he just gave up in a fight (while on his feet) because he was too tired. That's just unacceptable from a "pro" fighter.

Ken hurt my heart. I was really rooting for him.

I am 100% sick of seeing Ken on TV at any time. No matter what he is doing, whether it be fighting, coaching or just talking. He talks way too much and just can't back it up at the top level anymore. He doesn't realize that talent and specializing can only take you so far. He has not grown as a fighter at all, and what makes it frustrating is that he hasn't even tried to. Yet he is still a huge draw card and if he wants to be on the card he will be.

In regards to getting tired and giving up, this has happened to a number of top fighters. Including Kerr, and famously Coleman. It simply shouldn't happen at this level.

[Evil Conservative]

Who would have thought the highlight of the night would have been Vanderlai Silva's Def Comedy routine when he said he wanted to fuck Chuck Liddell?

[Blowmeup]

Who would have thought the highlight of the night would have been Vanderlai Silva's Def Comedy routine when he said he wanted to fuck Chuck Liddell?

Ya that was hilarious.

I was so dissappointed with Frank Mir. Out of shape, slow and looking like he is no longer a contender. I hope the UFC brings over Cro Cop or Alexsander Emalienenko from Pride. They would bring some life back into the HW division.

[AHM]

Who would have thought the highlight of the night would have been Vanderlai Silva's Def Comedy routine when he said he wanted to fuck Chuck Liddell?


I really, REALLY hope this fight happens. I'm not quite sure how it's going to work out - isn't the next round of Pride's OWGP about that time? Wandy might not be able to fight twice in such a short span. Also, I think Chuck has another fight (besides the Babalu fight) a couple months before or after that.

Silva would cave Liddell's face in methinks. While he always has a punchers chance, I just don't think Liddell can stop Silva. Silva will stand and bang, which is good for Liddell, but he's never fought anyone who can bring this much pain (anyone see that mauling of Fujita?).

[MrClean]

Shamrock Ortiz - Yeah it was stopped early. But the main question is, how many elbows did you want Shamrock to eat before you stopped it? There was no way Ortiz was going to let Shamrock off his back.

Sylvia Arlovski - Didn't it seem like they were happy to suck each other's dicks the whole time? We're all glad you respect each other as shown by the hugging and glove touching after every round, but fucking fight. It's fucking white trash vs a commie shouldn't they be swinging for the fences?

Burkman vs Neer - Hey Neer, if you're going to give the universal "Bring it on" gesture, BACK IT UP. It's nice to see that you like having your face rearranged, but don't talk shit about it.

Mir Christionson - Mir was hillariously out of shape. This fight was the homo's dream with two fat fucks rolling around, trying to catch a breath. Both so tired that they couldnt even throw a proper punch.

And, I wish I could have seen the earlier fight that accounted for all the blood that was in the octagon, but I missed it. So I had to hear "ahhhhhh man, you shoulda seen it, it was fuckin nasty" all night.

[Blowmeup]

And, I wish I could have seen the earlier fight that accounted for all the blood that was in the octagon, but I missed it. So I had to hear "ahhhhhh man, you shoulda seen it, it was fuckin nasty" all night.

Joe Daddy dropped an elbow on Yves Edwards head and opened up a huge cut. It was almost on top of his dome so they didnt stop the fight very quickly. He was bleeding badly so the doctors ended it between the 2nd and 3rd round. Yves could have continued since the blood was not going into his epes but they couldnt stop the bleeding so they called it.

[Thrillhouse]

And, I wish I could have seen the earlier fight that accounted for all the blood that was in the octagon, but I missed it. So I had to hear "ahhhhhh man, you shoulda seen it, it was fuckin nasty" all night.

Yeah, I thought that fight would have been stopped much earlier than it was. There was blood EVERYWHERE. However, I was suprised when it got called between the rounds because I figured if it was going to be stopped, it would have already happened.

Mir's fight was a big disappointment too. He's been a favorite of mine since he broke Sylvia's arm, and he looked terrible in his fight. I'm cutting him some slack because he did come back from a serious motorcyle accident, but he needs to step up his conditioning pronto. Getting tired with 2 minutes left in the first round is not going to cut it.

[BDS]

Mir's fight was a big disappointment too. He's been a favorite of mine since he broke Sylvia's arm, and he looked terrible in his fight. I'm cutting him some slack because he did come back from a serious motorcyle accident, but he needs to step up his conditioning pronto. Getting tired with 2 minutes left in the first round is not going to cut it.

Funny you mention Mir gassing. I just read an article on Sherdog (http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=5002) this morning that talked about him, and apparently it has been known for years that he just doesn't put a great deal of effort into his training. He's got some amazing natural talent, but will never go as far as he could until he gets the mindset necessary.

Oh and thanks for bringing up the Sylvia arm snapping incident. I lost $10 on that one.

[Shua]

I just watched the fights this morning. Worst PPV I have ever seen. The Sylvia vs Andrei fight was hands down the worst fight/main event I have ever watched in UFC. Not one good thing about it.

Highlight of the night is the announcement of Wandy vs. Chuck. This is the most looked forward to match up in the history of MMA. Fans have been talking about this fight for years and we finally get to see it if Chuck can beat Sobral. Ever one of you should pray every night between today and August 26 that Chuck wins this fight. Hopefully this is a success and we will se more crossover of the top talent between Pride, UFC, and WFA. Could you guys imagine Hendo vs. Franklin or Fedor fucking destroying Sylvia. What a great day for MMA if this is a success and we can get more of it to happen. This fight occurring is huge for the sport of MMA. It is possibly the biggest fight in the history of the sport for fans.

To the people that think the Shamrock/Tito fight was stopped early; you are absolutely crazy. The only result that would have come from that fight continuing even another 5 seconds would have been a bloody unconscious Shamrock rather than a guy that stood up in 30 seconds. He was in no way defending himself and wasn’t going to start if Herb hadn’t stopped it. The only result would have been a serious injury rather than a dazed Shamrock. He took 5 elbows to the face without even attempting to block one of them. No way should that fight have gone on any longer.

[Thrillhouse]

To the people that think the Shamrock/Tito fight was stopped early; you are absolutely crazy. The only result that would have come from that fight continuing even another 5 seconds would have been a bloody unconscious Shamrock rather than a guy that stood up in 30 seconds. He was in no way defending himself and wasn’t going to start if Herb hadn’t stopped it. The only result would have been a serious injury rather than a dazed Shamrock. He took 5 elbows to the face without even attempting to block one of them. No way should that fight have gone on any longer.
Even if this was this case (which isn't all that unlikely, I only watched once), what the fuck is WRONG with Ken Shamrock? Someone who pays better attention/knows better please correct me if I’m wrong, but why did Shamrock all of a sudden start eating those elbows? Maybe my memory sucks, but it didn’t look like Tito did anything to set them up. It was just like “Ken gets taken down. Couple punches. 5 quick elbows. Fight over.”

Did Tito throw a flurry that dazed him? Was that first elbow a stunner? Someone help me out on this because I’m thinking about it, and it just doesn’t add up. If Shamrock is just that incredibly sloppy that he doesn’t even know how to defend himself properly, in the opening 30 seconds of a fight no less, I think I’m going to throw up.

Maybe this is why I was so adamant about the fight being stopped early. My subconscious is telling me that there’s no way a pro fighter could be that stupid/sloppy.

[MrClean]

Funny you mention Mir gassing. I just read an article on Sherdog (http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=5002) this morning that talked about him, and apparently it has been known for years that he just doesn't put a great deal of effort into his training. He's got some amazing natural talent, but will never go as far as he could until he gets the mindset necessary.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=MultiMedia.Detail&gid=2922

Good post-fight interview with Mir. He talks about his conditioning, or lack thereof, and he "almost apoligizes" for his performance.


Even if this was this case (which isn't all that unlikely, I only watched once), what the fuck is WRONG with Ken Shamrock? Someone who pays better attention/knows better please correct me if I’m wrong, but why did Shamrock all of a sudden start eating those elbows? Maybe my memory sucks, but it didn’t look like Tito did anything to set them up. It was just like “Ken gets taken down. Couple punches. 5 quick elbows. Fight over.”

Did Tito throw a flurry that dazed him? Was that first elbow a stunner? Someone help me out on this because I’m thinking about it, and it just doesn’t add up. If Shamrock is just that incredibly sloppy that he doesn’t even know how to defend himself properly, in the opening 30 seconds of a fight no less, I think I’m going to throw up.

What the fuck are you talking about dude?

Did you see the assortment of blows Tito was peppering him with before the eblows? Did you see Shamrocks head snap back after the first elbow? Those weren't just ordinary elbows, those were powerful, full-on elbows that were dropped. After the 2nd one, shamrock went limp and that was it. Nothing he could to stop the flurry.

Is anyone surprised at the outcome? Who actually thought that Shamrock was going to win? He's on the decline of his career and Tito is one of the best in the business and in the greatest shape of his life. Tito's also completely embedded in Shamrock's mind. You saw when he picked Shamrock up and slammed him to the ground(which Shamrock never got up from)? That was the fight and fighters in a nutshell. Complete physical and mental domination by Ortiz.

Shamrock-Ortiz 3 would be even quicker, Shamrocks only getting worse. I don't want to come off as an Ortiz fan here, I just hate Shamrock. He's an idiot and a douchebag who takes himself way too seriously. You fought in the fucking WWF, shut the fuck up prick.

[Thrillhouse]

What the fuck are you talking about dude?

Did you see the assortment of blows Tito was peppering him with before the eblows? Did you see Shamrocks head snap back after the first elbow? Those weren't just ordinary elbows, those were powerful, full-on elbows that were dropped. After the 2nd one, shamrock went limp and that was it. Nothing he could to stop the flurry.

Is anyone surprised at the outcome? Who actually thought that Shamrock was going to win? He's on the decline of his career and Tito is one of the best in the business and in the greatest shape of his life. Tito's also completely embedded in Shamrock's mind. You saw when he picked Shamrock up and slammed him to the ground(which Shamrock never got up from)? That was the fight and fighters in a nutshell. Complete physical and mental domination by Ortiz.

Shamrock-Ortiz 3 would be even quicker, Shamrocks only getting worse.

I didn't. That's why I asked. I didn't see it happen, that's why I asked if that first elbow was a stunner. I'll probably go home and watch again. I can spare 45 seconds out of my day for that. The more I think about it, I may have to recant my bitch about them stopping the fight.

I saw him peppering him with blows, but I didn't think he was in that bad of trouble, at least until the first few elbows dropped.

I didn't think Shamrock would win. I didn't even think he would really be close, but I thought he would be able to take a bit more of a beating than he did.

[BudmanCardsfan]

The first elbow was definitely a stunner. If I remember correctly, after that elbow there was an extreme facial expression of pain coming from Ken and after that he was helpless. I think Herb Dean did the right thing pulling Tito off and stopping the fight.

[Shua]

Even if this was this case (which isn't all that unlikely, I only watched once), what the fuck is WRONG with Ken Shamrock? Someone who pays better attention/knows better please correct me if I’m wrong, but why did Shamrock all of a sudden start eating those elbows? Maybe my memory sucks, but it didn’t look like Tito did anything to set them up. It was just like “Ken gets taken down. Couple punches. 5 quick elbows. Fight over.”

Did Tito throw a flurry that dazed him? Was that first elbow a stunner? Someone help me out on this because I’m thinking about it, and it just doesn’t add up. If Shamrock is just that incredibly sloppy that he doesn’t even know how to defend himself properly, in the opening 30 seconds of a fight no less, I think I’m going to throw up.

Maybe this is why I was so adamant about the fight being stopped early. My subconscious is telling me that there’s no way a pro fighter could be that stupid/sloppy.


It’s not as if he just chose to eat those elbows. He was just outclassed in this fight. For some reason Shamrock still has a big name in the MMA world. It is the wrong Shamrock though. Ken was passed by the sport long ago. Tito is one of the best at attacking from another persons guard. Many Ground and Pound fighters need half guard, side mount, or full mount to effectively attack from the top but Ortiz is very good at doing it from a person’s full guard.

He did nothing specific to really faze him that allowed the elbows. He just got slammed and Tito attacked immediately from Ken’s guard. Tito is very good at doing that. His attack was perfect for this fight. Slam Ken and pound his face in from the top. Sounds simple but it was the perfect plan against someone like Shamrock. While Ken may have not been completely out of it when the fight was stopped you have to protect the fighters and when they cannot defend themselves they have to call the fight. Ken was not even attempting to defend himself. He would have been seriously hurt had the fight continued.

I love what Ken has done for the sport but he needs to retire. He has refused to adapt his style to current MMA. The guy has absolutely no BJJ/submission wrestling. He is as he says; strictly a brawler/leg lock guy. There has been almost zero evolution in his game since the first UFC’s.

As was stated, there is no way you could have not seen this being the result. Very similar to the Gracie/Hughes fight a few months ago; this is an example of a fighter that has not evolved with the sport and should not be participating at this level anymore. Anyone who thought that Shamrock had a chance either started watching during TUF 3 and thought that he looked meaner or just has a blind admiration for the guy considering what he has done for the sport. I pray to god that they do not have a 3rd fight because it was stopped to early. Ken has been demolished twice by Tito. Let Tito face Chuck, Babalu, or whoever the champ happens to be for his next fight. Ken needs to just retire.

[KyleDizzy]

Otiz-Shamrock

I was pissed it was stopped soon. Herb didn't make that bad of a call, as if he didn't do it then he would have had to do it 5 seconds later, it was inevitable. My only gripe is that now Shamrock has a excuse and a controversial loss instead of a decisive beatdown.

Arlovski-Sylvia

Can someone please tell me why the FUCK Arlovski didn't put Sylvia's redneck ass on the ground? You know Sylvia has zero ground game and would tap super easy (went Arlovski leg locked him in their first fight, Sylvia commented that he felt his lock start to pop like his arm did when Mir broke it). Instead they both danced around, both afraid to get KTFO. The only shoot was when he got rocked and it was a pure survival move.

Mir-Christanson

What. A. Disapointment. It was painful to see a former champion struggle so much against a relative nobody. Over at sherdog there's rumours and speculation about him being hooked on painkillers, to explain why he looked so terrible and out of shape. I truly hope he gets his shit together, if Sylvia has that belt much longer I think I just might have to throw on 50 lbs, learn to fight and become the next UFC HW contender.



It's kind of sad that the highlight of the night is a staredown between Wandy and Liddell, not the two over-hyped main events. Not to mention I would have rather seen a legitamite LHW contender fight of Monson-Perosh than the boring WW's.

Joe Daddy looks like a pimp at 155 though, I wonder when the hell they're going to put out a LH belt. I'd like to see Florian and Stevenson go.

[Just Not Me]

The plan right now is for Kenny Florian to face Sean Sherk for the vacant Lightweight belt. I'd say probably at UFC 62 (chuck/babalu). Then, I bet Stephenson gets the next shot at the title.

[BDS]

Arlovski-Sylvia

Can someone please tell me why the FUCK Arlovski didn't put Sylvia's redneck ass on the ground?

Because Sylvia is a 6'8" 280 pound gorilla with good takedown defense, and an uppercut that put Arlovski's lights out in the second fight? Oh and by the way, if you watch the first two fights, both times Arlovski got Sylvia on the ground, it was from a punch, not shooting for his legs.

[PJR808]

Because Sylvia is a 6'8" 280 pound gorilla with good takedown defense, and an uppercut that put Arlovski's lights out in the second fight? Oh and by the way, if you watch the first two fights, both times Arlovski got Sylvia on the ground, it was from a punch, not shooting for his legs.

Agreed, not to mention that Sylvia's ground defense is much improved since UFC 51. Sylvia is actually pretty competent on the ground. Not as good as Arlovski, but not so bad that Arlovski would have been assured victory had he gotten Sylvia down. Don't forget who Sylvia trains with, he's big and ugly and he likes to strike, but he's a still a Miletich guy and he knows how to fight.

[KyleDizzy]

Because Sylvia is a 6'8" 280 pound gorilla with good takedown defense, and an uppercut that put Arlovski's lights out in the second fight? Oh and by the way, if you watch the first two fights, both times Arlovski got Sylvia on the ground, it was from a punch, not shooting for his legs.

I know that's how it went down the first times, I'm just wondering my Arlovski didn't make it more of a gameplan to put sylvia on the ground.

I disagree with that uppercut putting Arlovski's lights out. It rocked him for sure but the TKO came mainly from AA getting pinned on his stomach by that same 6'8" gorilla. I'm not disputing that Sylvia didn't legitimately win, but it's not like Arlovski got destroyed.

All in all unless Mir gets his shit together I'm not too excited about the future of the UFC heavyweight division.

[Attitude]

Shamrock/Ortiz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNkILA5fJfQ&search=ufc%20tito

When I initially watched this over the weekend, I was pissed they stopped the fight. I didn't think Shamrock was going to come back and win, but I thought Dean stopped it early. Now that I've watched it a few more times, Tito hits shamrock w/ a really hard elbow, and as Tito said, Ken definitely went limp. Tito then hits him with 7 more elbows before Dean stepped in. He would have hit him 7 more times if Dean didn't stop him. Now, while Ken isn't at risk for losing more IQ points, there's no reason for him to die in there.

Dana: Please don't subject us to Ken/Tito III.

Def. highlight of the night was when I got to turn to my buddy and say "Did he just say he wants to fuck Chuck?"

As mentioned earlier, I am praying Chuck gets passed Babalu. That will be quite a fight. I think.

[BudmanCardsfan]

Phil Baroni to fight in the November UFC ppv?

Former UFC Middleweight and current PRIDE Bushido fighter "The New York Bad Ass" Phil Baroni recently revealed that he will as well be part of the upcoming November UFC card in Las Vegas.

http://www.mmanews.com/article/154559910.php (http://http://www.mmanews.com/article/154559910.php)

[Thrillhouse]

I know that's how it went down the first times, I'm just wondering my Arlovski didn't make it more of a gameplan to put sylvia on the ground.

I disagree with that uppercut putting Arlovski's lights out. It rocked him for sure but the TKO came mainly from AA getting pinned on his stomach by that same 6'8" gorilla. I'm not disputing that Sylvia didn't legitimately win, but it's not like Arlovski got destroyed.

All in all unless Mir gets his shit together I'm not too excited about the future of the UFC heavyweight division.

If I remember correctly, Sylvia was beating on the back/side of Arlovski's head when the fight got called. If you watch the fight, all Sylvia does is chase him to the ground and throw punches to get the fight called. Besides, Arlovski has a really bad habit of dropping his head when he goes in for a punch, especially if he throws that right at full force. It's what got him rocked the first time, and I really don't think he's forgotten that yet. Making a mistake like that while going for a shoot on Sylvia's legs = lights out Andre. An uppercut or knee while going for that would have put him on his back.

Sylvia knew he could win the fight doing what he was doing, and I think Arlovski was overly cautious after getting knocked out in the last fight.

[Shua]

Phil Baroni to fight in the November UFC ppv?



http://www.mmanews.com/article/154559910.php (http://http://www.mmanews.com/article/154559910.php)


This card could be amazing.

http://www.mmanews.com/article/154557996.php

For those of you who don’t know who Baroni is; please go to youtube.com or blockbuster and get some of his fights. He fought in the UFC during the PPV 30’s if I am not mistaken. While he is not the greatest fighter ever (as he claims to be) I honestly don’t think he has ever had a boring fight.

[Porgee]

Pride must be really hurting from the lost TV deal with Fuji. They have to start loaning some fighters to a growing audience to help promote their brand over here. Apparently, Fox Sports has signed on for a Pride Bushido event, with a possible PPV coming to Vegas in the next 6-12 months. I think this is finally the breakthrough for NA MMA fans. The UFC and Pride working mutually may help dispel some of the myths of MMA, and make it the premier combat sport in the world. Boxing people are already getting worried, as UFC PPVs have had equal or greater buys than Boxing PPVs lately. And if the UFC can get a deal with HBO, they will have huge marketing possibilities. Right now, the UFC is used as Spike's number one commercial vehicle, and if on HBO, the audience and money would grow. This in turn leads to more money for fighters, more talent, and a better product.

[BDS]

Pride must be really hurting from the lost TV deal with Fuji. They have to start loaning some fighters to a growing audience to help promote their brand over here.

Well look at the fighters they have loaned:

Fujita: Also known as "ol' concrete head". The shots this guy has taken over his career would have been enough to knock out a clydesdale. He also packs a hell of a punch, and had Fedor doing the fish dance, until being submitted by the Russian. PRIDE basically has nothing else to do with him. He's a strong fighter with a ton of heart, but he has proven himself unable to compete with the upper echelon of their heavyweight stars. They really have no risk sending him over here. If he wins against UFC competition, he makes PRIDE look good. If he loses, it's no big loss for them. He isn't even in their top 5 heavies.

Wanderlei Silva: This is a big risk for PRIDE, as he is considered by most MMA fans outside of the UFC's zone of influence to be the #1 light heavyweight in the world. PRIDE happens to have a great deal of faith in the "Axe Murderer" though, considering the fact that Quinton Jackson beat up on Liddell, and Wanderlai whooped Jackson twice. MMA math doesn't usually mean anything, but in this case PRIDE has to like their chances. By the way, this fight may not happen if Wanderlei gets injured in the Semis or Finals of the PRIDE open weight GP.

Phil Baroni: Until someone other than Phil Baroni, oh such as PRIDE or the UFC, actually confirms this, I will continue to be a bit skeptical. According to Baroni, he also will be fighting in the second round of the PRIDE middle weight GP if Ryo Chonnan can't heal from injuries in time. He also went around telling people he bitch slapped a female MMA reporter in a club in Las Vegas. Phil likes to talk alot, and it's usually without the support of much evidence.

[Blowmeup]

Even Rich Franklin agrees that this fight was stopped too early. Ken did get dazed and he did take some elbows to the grape (some landed and some grazed), but a fighter with his history in the sport should be given more respect than that. Franklin said that a newbie should have been stopped at that point but that Ken should've been given more time to recover.

*Rich said this to Bubba the Love Sponge and Bubba spoke about it today on Howard 101*

[Thrillhouse]

Even Rich Franklin agrees that this fight was stopped too early. Ken did get dazed and he did take some elbows to the grape (some landed and some grazed), but a fighter with his history in the sport should be given more respect than that. Franklin said that a newbie should have been stopped at that point but that Ken should've been given more time to recover.

*Rich said this to Bubba the Love Sponge and Bubba spoke about it today on Howard 101*

Then Franklin is a fucking idiot. This isn't about respect or being a veteran. It's about the refs doing their job and trying to keep Shamrock from getting his fucking head caved in. You respect someone so you're going to let them get turned into a drooling cripple for the rest of their life?

I JUST watched this fight again. It was a little close, but the bottom line is Shamrock wasn't defending against those elbows. If you watched the second Arlovski/Sylvia fight, it was a bit similar to that in my mind, as Arlovski was very feebly defending himself when the fight was stopped. Both fighters got rocked, and their opponents moved in for the kill. Had they been given some time to recover WITHOUT their opponents punching them in the face, would they have recovered? Probably so, and probably very quickly.

However, that wasn't the case. Shamrock caught a stunner elbow at 3:49 left, then took 6 more to the face before the fight was called. All of them mildly defended at best. If Tito had started swinging harder, Ken was going to get hurt. Badly.

[BDS]

Even Rich Franklin agrees that this fight was stopped too early.

I find this ironic considering many people thought Franklin's beating of Shamrock was stopped prematurely as well. He didn't seem to have much of a problem with that referee decision.

Take a look at three of Shamrock's last fights and they all have one thing in common:

Rich Franklin: Shamrock slips on the mat while trying to throw a kick. Franklin jumps on him and pounds away until the ref stops it. Ken is upset.

Sakuraba: Ken takes a huge punch and goes down. He looks very out of it and the referee stops the fight. Ken is upset.

Tito Ortiz: Didn't see this one, but from the way it was described, Tito is on top of him pounding away with elbows that are not being defended against. Ref stops the fight. Ken is upset.

See a pattern here? I'm starting to think that Ken Shamrock should change his nickname to "The World's most Masochistic Man", because he really seems to get angry when a beating he is receiving is stopped.

[T-Watling]

Phil Baroni: Until someone other than Phil Baroni, oh such as PRIDE or the UFC, actually confirms this, I will continue to be a bit skeptical. According to Baroni, he also will be fighting in the second round of the PRIDE middle weight GP if Ryo Chonnan can't heal from injuries in time. He also went around telling people he bitch slapped a female MMA reporter in a club in Las Vegas. Phil likes to talk alot, and it's usually without the support of much evidence.

Baroni is rumoured to be in the second round of pride WW GP, as well as Cage Rage 18 fighting Mark Weir for the middleweight title, Robbie Lawler at ROTR for the middleweight title in Hawaii as well as on the ufc, November card.

I heard about him slapping that reporter, he knocked her out. It was the same bitch that had been talking crap about him in the mma press, rumour has it that BJ Penn came to her defence and a drunk Baroni walked off and then tried to fight Chris Leben who exercised a cool head and calmed Baroni down.

[Shua]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2516201

Nice to see MMA get a little pub from ESPN which up to this point ESPN had refused to even acknowledge that it was a sport.

Bill O’Reilly also interviewed Rich Franklin and Dana White a few weeks ago which you can find on youtude.com although it did not shed a very positive light on the sport and Dana White pretty much got owned.

[Blowmeup]

Shamrock = cry-baby. I agree with that very much. I still think he should've been given more of a chance to recover. It is a very subjective point though so who knows?

Bill O’Reilly also interviewed Rich Franklin and Dana White a few weeks ago which you can find on youtude.com although it did not shed a very positive light on the sport and Dana White pretty much got owned.

I watched this and it wasnt that bad. Dana pretty much always comes across abrasive and it was no different here. However, Rich is so well spoken and articulate that he made very good points and shut down O'Reilly a couple of times. The reality on those shows is that guys like Bill O'Reilly are masterdebaters and they know how to manipulate the conversation to suit their agenda.

[Supernova]

Shamrock = cry-baby. I agree with that very much. I still think he should've been given more of a chance to recover. It is a very subjective point though so who knows?



I watched this and it wasnt that bad. Dana pretty much always comes across abrasive and it was no different here. However, Rich is so well spoken and articulate that he made very good points and shut down O'Reilly a couple of times. The reality on those shows is that guys like Bill O'Reilly are masterdebaters and they know how to manipulate the conversation to suit their agenda.

RE: That video, O'Reilly is a jackass. If the UFC and other fighting organizations are banned in the US, they'll just move to Japan or Brazil, elsewhere. The fans will still watch, will still pay 40$/ppv (unless they're all like 61. In that case, I'm fucking done.) and the revenue will still be there. What makes this country beautiful is if we want to beat the fucking shit out of each other, WE CAN.

[Attitude]

RE: That video, O'Reilly is a jackass.

O'Reilly is a total jackass. But Dana wasn't particularly articulate either - he should have stayed calm:

"Actually Bill, boxing doesn't cause Parkinson's disease."

"Well, Dana Ali thinks so."

"Well, thats fine Bill, but he's not really qualified to make that assessment. You know, since he keeps shaking and all. But seriously Bill, there's no proven link between head trauma and developing Parkinson's. Seriously, don't you have interns to look this stuff up? Oh, right, never mind, they're just around for sexual harrassment purposes. ha! Gotcha again Billy, god this show is fun."

[BudmanCardsfan]

Dana was totally unprepared for that show. If you know you are going on O'Reilly's show you better be well prepared for some tough Q&A, and if you are not prepared O'Reilly can make you look like a fool on national television.

Dana should have just kept his mouth shut and let Rich do most of the talking. He obviously was better prepared than Dana, and honestly I think Dana made the U.F.C. look awful that night.

[Jahed]

I can't say anything else about the Shamrock-Ortiz fight. When you are watching it live under the influence of 5-6 beers it all looks too slow. I agree on closer inspection that it was the right call, despite Herb Dean being the shittiest ref ever.

During the fight between Tim Sylvia and Arlovski, I was completely baffled. After having read this: http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=5015
I now realize why he didn't chute at all or try to weaken Sylvia's leg with leg kicks. It was still infuriating to watch though.

As for Wanderlei Silva, that was an early Christmas present. Nothing would make me happier than to see Silva take it to Liddell and shut all the UFC fan boys up. It is extremely annoying to be in a packed bar in Huntington Beach and listen to a bunch of Bros talk about how badly Liddell is going to win when they have never even seen Silva fight. That fight can't come fast enough.

[Shua]

RE: That video, O'Reilly is a jackass. If the UFC and other fighting organizations are banned in the US, they'll just move to Japan or Brazil, elsewhere. The fans will still watch, will still pay 40$/ppv (unless they're all like 61. In that case, I'm fucking done.) and the revenue will still be there. What makes this country beautiful is if we want to beat the fucking shit out of each other, WE CAN.


I watched this and it wasnt that bad. Dana pretty much always comes across abrasive and it was no different here. However, Rich is so well spoken and articulate that he made very good points and shut down O'Reilly a couple of times. The reality on those shows is that guys like Bill O'Reilly are masterdebaters and they know how to manipulate the conversation to suit their agenda.

I will not dispute that O’Reilly is a jackass. He yells over people though and makes it appear that he is always correct. But you have to prepared for that as his guest.

I also will not disagree that Dana usually presents himself in this manner and gets pissed way too easily.

However when you go on his show you know that he is going to have some obscure study to prove his point and you must be prepared do dispute this with your own evidence. Dana did not do this. He was not prepared at all and that is not what this sport needs. To me it is as pure a sporting competition as you can have. To the mainstream it is barbaric and should be illegal. This sport needs to present itself in a positive light at all times. Dana white swearing (check out every interview he does) and having short insults at Bill does not help the sport. He could have presented countless facts to dispute O’Reilly regardless of what O’Reilly said. How about we have never had a death as a result of a sanctioned MMA event in the US. However his only comeback was; “really, are you a doctor.” The face of a large organization must present himself in a better light.

[Doomsday]

Anyone have a feed for this on Saturday? Also, what time is it going to be stateside?

Better to just get the torrent.

[BDS]

The Bonnar-Griffin rematch is official. Look for it at UFC 62.

Round Two (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2374&zoneid=13)

[clkx88]

I just watched a video on espn.com and it had Matt Hughes and GSP talking about their previous fight, and it was then announced that the rematch would happen on the September PPV from the Arrowhead Pond.

[BDS]

It's official, Bas Rutten's opponent for this weekend's WFA PPV has been dropped from the card. Kimo, best known for his performance against Royce Gracie back in the early days of the UFC, has once again tested positive for Wynstrol and been banned by the state athletic commition. Wes Sims was named as a replacement, but in an ironic turn of events (Wes Sims last two opponents dropped out, including Mark Kerr who showed up and then refused to fight) he has dropped out too.

Unless they can find an opponent for Rutten by tommorow's event, the only headlining fight left on the card is the Matt Lindland-Quinton Jackson match. To make matters worse, Jose Landi Johns (Pele) has also dropped off the card and been replaced by another no name fighter. Things are not looking good for the WFA.

Kimo gets banned (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2393&zoneid=13)

[victorygrappler]

Kimo was replaced by warpath, and Bas' TKO was pretty brutal. Especially concidering he had a messed up rib, torn groin muscle, and a knee injury. Its a shame the WFA didnt't do so well with thier first big event, but one can always hope for the future.

Can't wait for the Pride OWGP finals, those are going to be some killer matches.

[BudmanCardsfan]

As Sherdog.com reported on Friday, the Ultimate Fighting Championship has been negotiating with Tito Ortiz (Pictures) and Ken Shamrock (Pictures) to promote a third installment of their blood-feud.

Apparently the talks went well. UFC president Dana White is quoted in Sunday’s Las Vegas Review-Journal that the trilogy-making bout will take place.

Now we can see Ken get the shit beat out of him, and not have to pay for it. (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=5244)

[KIMaster]

It's incredible how much money Ken Shamrock makes for getting beat up in two minutes or less.

The Franklin fight made him $230,000, Sakuraba was in the six figures easily, and the second Tito bout made him another 200k.

Amazing what a little pro wrestling exposure will do for you.

[lhprop1]

Lesnar training with MFS (http://www.maxfighting.com/index.cfm?ac=news.detail&nid=1573)

I'm sure most of you who frequent MMA forums have already known this. But Miletich saying “A year from now there’s not going to be anybody on the planet that can beat him”, wow, that's pretty bold.

So does he send Brock straight to Pride to have a go at Fedor or does he send him to mop up on Silvia, Arlovski and the rest of the chumps in the UFC?

[KIMaster]

Lesnar training with MFS (http://www.maxfighting.com/index.cfm?ac=news.detail&nid=1573)

I'm sure most of you who frequent MMA forums have already known this. But Miletich saying “A year from now there’s not going to be anybody on the planet that can beat him”, wow, that's pretty bold.

So does he send Brock straight to Pride to have a go at Fedor or does he send him to mop up on Silvia, Arlovski and the rest of the chumps in the UFC?

Lesnar is under contract with K-1 and was introduced at one of their shows earlier this year. (His WWE contract prevents him from competing in either PRIDE or the UFC) Frankly, that's where he should stay, beating up on Japanese pro wrestlers and other tomato cans.

It's no longer 1996, when an excellent 30-ish wrestler could instantly rise to the top of the sport. Fighters are vastly more evolved and skilled a decade later. Considering his already lengthy list of injuries, I question whether he will be anything more than an older Travis Wiuff. (Another bulky college wrestling star who trained with Miletich)

[Bizznatch]

Ortiz vs Shamrock is turning into Tyson vs Holyfield. Ken's going to end up biting his ear off or something ridiculous.

[DBlock]

Ortiz/Shamrock is a joke and I think even the dumbest MMA fans realize that at this point.

Does anyone know how long Lesnar isn't able to go to Pride or UFC and would he be able to make 265 anyway?

UFC absolutely has to get someone in there to challenge Tim Sylvia. Monson and Vera just seem too small to me to be anything but a longshot against Sylvia. Frank Mir is an out of shape joke. The Arlovski saga has run its course.

The guy I would love to get to come to UFC is Heath Herring, he's big, he can strike and he's charismatic and he wouldn't demand Fedor/Cro Crop money, but I doubt they could pry him away from K-1. Maybe a guy like Overeem, James Thompson or Aleks Emelianenko(if he ever wants to fight for a title) would come over. They're all big, exciting guys who are willing to strike. Is the Jerome Lebanner talk dead? I don't know what direction they'll take, but they absolutely HAVE to bring in someone else.

[Shua]

Ortiz/Shamrock is a joke and I think even the dumbest MMA fans realize that at this point.

Does anyone know how long Lesnar isn't able to go to Pride or UFC and would he be able to make 265 anyway?

UFC absolutely has to get someone in there to challenge Tim Sylvia. Monson and Vera just seem too small to me to be anything but a longshot against Sylvia. Frank Mir is an out of shape joke. The Arlovski saga has run its course.

The guy I would love to get to come to UFC is Heath Herring, he's big, he can strike and he's charismatic and he wouldn't demand Fedor/Cro Crop money, but I doubt they could pry him away from K-1. Maybe a guy like Overeem, James Thompson or Aleks Emelianenko(if he ever wants to fight for a title) would come over. They're all big, exciting guys who are willing to strike. Is the Jerome Lebanner talk dead? I don't know what direction they'll take, but they absolutely HAVE to bring in someone else.

Yes Ortiz vs. shamrock is a joke but at least it’s free and hopefully the will let Ortiz put an exclamation point on this one to end the trilogy.

I hadn’t heard anything about Lesnar not being able to fight in Pride or UFC until this thread. He shouldn’t have any problem making 265 though. If you go look at old wrestling matches of him college he is not that much different of a size. He supposedly is at 280 right now. While at that body fat it will be tough I would imagine he will be able to cut 15 pounds. If he does come over to UFC though I doubt we would ever see him fight Sylvia. They will be out of the same school and at close to 30 it will be tough to pick up this sport no matter how good of a wrestler he is.

I would love to see Heath Herring come to the UFC but I don’t think the money will be right for that to happen.

Last rumors that I have heard is that Lebanner is signing with WFA. That is another signing I would love to see the UFC make.

Truth be told I don’t really care that the heavyweight division sucks because I don’t like that weight class anyway and by having a shallow division it means we get more fights at lighter weights in the PPVs.

[Porgee]

I honesty believe that if, down the road, and the money was right, Dana White would throw a swing bout between Lesnar and another big name. The big name might not be an established MMA star, but maybe another pro-wrestler or amateur/olympic caliber type. They could fight at a 280 give or take 5-10 pound weight limit. The fight would probably be shit, but the PPV numbers could be big. Unfortunately, this is the MO of the UFC right now. Get the most popular fighters to fight, despite the matchups.

[victorygrappler]

or Aleks Emelianenko(if he ever wants to fight for a title) would come over.
I think Aleks has visa/work permit issues due to his criminal past. Very small chance of him coming to the u.s. anytime soon.

[T-Watling]

UFC absolutely has to get someone in there to challenge Tim Sylvia. Monson and Vera just seem too small to me to be anything but a longshot against Sylvia. Frank Mir is an out of shape joke. The Arlovski saga has run its course.

Tim Sylvia vs Monson actually could be a good match. Monson, a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is already a major force in submission grappling. He won the prestigious Abu Dhabi Submission Grappling World Tournament Heavy Weight Division in 2005 and also won his division in the tournament in 1999. He is coming off his 14th MMA win in a row and hasn't lost a match since 2002. Monson's ground game is one of the best in MMA. Sylvia's ground game sucks, he doess't have one except for using his body to create a long guard. Standing, Sylvia wins as Monson can't reach him with the almost 1ft diffrence in height. If it goes to the ground Monson will win. Its the classic match up of Striker vs Grappler.

[DBlock]

I know about Monson's grappling skills, I just don't see him being able to close the distance and get a takedown. Maybe if he just puts his big-ass head down and bull rushes him he can get the takedown, but I doubt it.

[Shua]

Tim Sylvia vs Monson actually could be a good match. Monson, a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is already a major force in submission grappling. He won the prestigious Abu Dhabi Submission Grappling World Tournament Heavy Weight Division in 2005 and also won his division in the tournament in 1999. He is coming off his 14th MMA win in a row and hasn't lost a match since 2002. Monson's ground game is one of the best in MMA. Sylvia's ground game sucks, he doess't have one except for using his body to create a long guard. Standing, Sylvia wins as Monson can't reach him with the almost 1ft diffrence in height. If it goes to the ground Monson will win. Its the classic match up of Striker vs Grappler.

I love Monson. He is one of my 3 favorite fighters. But let’s frame how good he is. HE LOST TO FORREST GRIFFIN. Yes he has a nice little streak going but if you take a close look at it he hasn’t really beaten any quality MMA fighters. It's a who's who of B and C level fighters for the most part.

As much shit as Sylvia gets for being an oaf and a world class douchebag; the guy can flat out fight. He is a top 5 HW in the world despite what everyone says and there is no way Monson takes this to the ground and if he does he isn’t keeping it there with Sylvia’s size.

[T-Watling]

As much shit as Sylvia gets for being an oaf and a world class douchebag; the guy can flat out fight. He is a top 5 HW in the world despite what everyone says and there is no way Monson takes this to the ground and if he does he isn’t keeping it there with Sylvia’s size.

You hit the nail on the head there. The big question is if Monson can take this to the ground and then beyond that can he work inside Tim Sylvia's long guard. His qualifications in the ADCC and Ju-jitsu are 100% legit, so there is a strong chance he will be able to sub Sylvia a.k.a. Frank Mir arm breaker style.


However for all the crap Sylvia gets he has been working out with Billy Rush as well as the MFS and really advancing his training and becoming more and more serious. He is stretching every morning and just improving with everyday, heck he used to have to cut weight to make 265, last time he was at 257.5. Both fighters are on a roll and both have the skills. Could go either way in my mind, just depends where the fight takes place, standing or on the ground.

[Shua]

Last night I went to the Warriors Cup in Stockton, CA. Nick Diaz was supposed to be the Main Event against Allesio (the guy Diego Sanchez piggy backed a few PPV ago) but he never signed the contract and the replacement failed his drug test. Nick’s little brother Nate was the main event instead. He is just as fluid and it was a good but quick fight.

Overall the event was amazing. There were 12 fights and every one of them except one was awesome and they even had a Chick MMA fight which was the best knockout of the night. I paid $50 bucks for my tickets and was 25 feet from the ring. There was even a brawl on the floor 10 feet from me. Some guy mounted another guy and was beating the shit out of him until 2 chicks started booting him in the head.

Here is a shitty phone pick of my view.

[BudmanCardsfan]

I thought that Dave Navarro was dating Jenna Jameson these days, but with all due respect to Dave, he should probably keep his mouth shut on this one.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2006/08/jenna_jameson_tito_splash.jpg


TMZ Article with Tito and Jenna (http://http://www.tmz.com/2006/08/15/jenna-jameson-torn-between-two-lovers/)

[KIMaster]

A lot of porn stars have become MMA groupies since the sport became popular in the US. Brittney Skye is probably the most famous and "well-used" one, based on what I've heard from several fighters.

Ironically, the porn star groupies often make several times what the fighters do.

[Gylius]

Ya, this post is going to be late, but whatever.

I doubt that the Tim Sylvia/Monson fight will be any kind of entertaining. To me Tim Sylvia is one of the most boring fighters to watch. The fight with him against Arlovski was coma inducing. He seems to win just because he's big and powerful, which is kind of sad.

I don't want to turn this into a Pride vs. UFC argument, but I think the heavyweight division in UFC is weak in general. Pride has at least 5 heavyweights that could take the belt from Tim Sylvia on any given day in my opinion. And then of course we could talk about Fedor Emelianenko, who is arguably the best MMA fighter there is. He is simply amazing.

And to get this back on track, at any PPV UFC fight, you'll see a bunch of porn stars. You can even make it a game, who can spot the most? And I'm sure not suprised that the porn stars make more money than the fighters. I think it'll be a couple of years before the average fighter starts making decent money in this business. Possibly when some legitimate sponsors realize it's popular. Hopefully I won't have to see 30 Xyience commercials a day when that happens.

[DBlock]

I don't think anyone's disputing the disgusting condition of UFC's heavyweight division. I would put Fedor, Big Nog, Cro Cop, an in-shape Barnett, maybe Hunt and Werdum far ahead of Sylvia and Pitbull, although before his last abortion of a fight, I would've put Andrei ahead of everyone except Fedor and Nogueira. Then you have the guys stepping up in weight like Shogun and Overeem(who seems more comfortable at HW, despite his snoozer in his last fight), who could challenge at HW. That's why it's crucial to get someone like Herring or Hammer Thompson in there to gauge the level of the UFC guys, and if they're not up to snuff, get some guys in there who can actually fight. Vera has SICK potential but I still think he's gonna be better off dropping to 205.

[T-Watling]

Vera has SICK potential but I still think he's gonna be better off dropping to 205.

A lot of people say this I can see why but I disagree.

Why drop?

There is no good reason for him to drop to light-heavyweight at the moment he has 3 consecutive wins in the ufc heavyweight division He has beaten some good opponents in Eilers and Assureio Silva and win over Mr could give him a title shot.

Who’s to say Vera won’t dominate? There is as mentioned a lack of talent in the ufc heavyweight division. He is potentially one of the most rounded guys in there, with great Muai Thai and a BJJ brown belt. He is comfortable wherever the fight goes unlike many other UFC heavyweights, such as Sylvia, Mir and Monson. I see Vera going along way in this division.

[Bizznatch]

A lot of people say this I can see why but I disagree.
He is comfortable wherever the fight goes unlike many other UFC heavyweights, such as Sylvia, Mir and Monson. I see Vera going along way in this division.

Where would Mir be uncomfortable? Oh wait, I think I have the answer to my own question. The second round. If he got into some decent shape, Mir has shown that he has the physical skills (before his accident). If he could get his head in the fucking game I think that he'd at least be a quality fighter in the HW division.

Sylvia's game revolves around the fact that he's so big and strong that A: even if you take him down, he has good enough ground defense that he can usually get the fight back to standing, and B: You take the risk of getting KTFO every time you go for a takedown.

I really think that the blueprint for beating Sylvia is taking advantage of his big frame and just rain down leg kicks ala Arlovski in the first round of their last fight. 10 minutes of getting kicked in the leg is no fun for anyone and will provide massive dividends in the third round. #1, Sylvia's striking will be inhibited because he will have to constantly guard against the leg kick / take damage to that leg. #2 He'll have an unstable base. #3, keeping Sylvia outside of punching range helps you control the fight. #4 It'll be much easier to take him to the mat in the latter rounds because he'll either be standing on one leg to check leg kicks or be wobbly and slower to react.

I absolutely hate Tim Sylvia and I can't wait until the UFC gets some better fighters in the HW division. At least then I hopefully won't have to watch 25 minutes of synchronized shadowboxing in the next HW title defense.

[DannyMac]

Since we already have a thread for this, I'm going to put my thoughts about the Fight Night in here. FYI, but I'm just getting back into UFC after a LOOONNNGGG (thank Tank Abbot's days of dominance) break from MMA. I basically caught a marathon of TUF 3 realized how much the sport has evolved and have gotten myself back into it.

I really liked how dynamic last night's fights were on the whole. The Lister fight sucked in the third round, because both guys were so gassed, but it was really enjoyable up to that point. The Sanchez fight was unbelievable. I thought Diego was done in the second round on some of those sub attempts, but he always found a way to escape. Really some good stuff overall.

Are we going to get a TUF 4 thread going or did I miss the boat again?

[Attitude]

Are we going to get a TUF 4 thread going or did I miss the boat again?


I'll start one. I'm not sure it makes much sense to have a poll this time since the identity of the finalists has been reported.

[Dominus]

wow what an anti climatic piece of shit. Tito wins after elbowing Shamrock 4 times, while he is in shamrocks gaurd? fuck...give me a break, you don't end a main event like that. Fuck. then sylvia and andrei just danced around and jabbed at each other...for 5 rounds. As much as they hyped that up, what a let down, i got blue balls.

Yeah, I know Ken would not have turned it around and it probably would have ended a minute later. But damn, atleast let it play out

If you can, try to catch pride more often. The fights seem to be of a much higher skill level, stomping is allowed, Fador fights for pride (what else could you want?), and if someone is knocked down, I believe they give them a ten count. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those.

Oh, and Chuck Liddel had his shit ruined in Pride Fighting. Granted, he had a good stint, it just didn't last too long.

[KIMaster]

If you can, try to catch pride more often. The fights seem to be of a much higher skill level, stomping is allowed, Fador fights for pride (what else could you want?), and if someone is knocked down, I believe they give them a ten count. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those.

I'm pretty sure this guy is a Sherdog troll. Not only does he spell a fucking five letter name wrong, but he also believes there's a 10 count in PRIDE. (How does one confuse PRIDE with RINGS??)

[Shua]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=5381

Apparently we will not be seeing GSP vs. Hughes at UFC 63. I know many will be disappointed by this, but I for one am excited.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=5362

And Diaz is replacing Alves on Saturday.

[The Pugilist]

The Pride FC Bushido 12 tournament will be on at 3 am eastern this morning. Luckily, The event will be played for free on Fox Sports Network on August 27th at 7pm (EST I assume). Unfortunately, the event will be cut down to 2 hours.

[St. Jimmy]

I'm the only one excited about Bonnar v. Griffin 2?

I'm probably gonna head to the sports bar tonight to catch it. I usually don't go to bars to see UFC live (and fuck paying 40 bucks for it), but if it's as good as the first, i'm all about it.

[Dominus]

I'm pretty sure this guy is a Sherdog troll. Not only does he spell a fucking five letter name wrong, but he also believes there's a 10 count in PRIDE. (How does one confuse PRIDE with RINGS??)

I wasn't trolling, just making a suggestion. I spelled "Fedor" incorrectly, big deal? His name isn't too fucking common. I was trying to be constructive in my post. After watching some more Pride, I see that no such ten count exists. I saw that the guy appeared to have a dwindling interest in UFC fighting, so I pointed him to Pride, which I have watched only a bit of. I didn't declare myself an expert of mma organizations.

Back to what matters. I've heard about a Pride fight coming to the US, does anyone know more about this?

[Blowmeup]

I've heard about a Pride fight coming to the US, does anyone know more about this?

Pride in Las Vegas October 21: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/rumors.asp?articleid=2323&zoneid=14

Looks like it could be an amazing card!

[Buckminsterfullerene]

For anyone that had to miss the Chuck v. Babalu fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R45W-z0tk_s

(No promises on how long it will stay up.)

[MikeT]

Sobral got cought being greedy and one of the best parts was when Mccarthy but Sobral in full gaurd

[Blowmeup]

The best line of the night courtesy of the always funny and dry-witted Forrest Griffen, "I came into this fight tonight with an enflamed vagina"

Griffen has had my respect for a while because of his heart, humility and sense of humor but this was the best. Making fun of all the fighters that blame subpar performances on injuries was classic. It was a subtle dig also at Tito Ortiz who has said over and over again that he was only "60% and had a torn ACL and LCL" when he fought Forrest.

[Mike Gill]

does anyone have links to the liddel and griffin matches that have not been taken down yet?

[uncreative]

does anyone have links to the liddel and griffin matches that have not been taken down yet?
check torrentspy.com

[Blowmeup]

does anyone have links to the liddel and griffin matches that have not been taken down yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf9nIlSJRKs

[Bizznatch]

I hear that you can download a full copy of the whole event from www.torrentz.com

[Lil Jizzy]

Will any of you guys participate?

I'm a BJJ Purple Belt, but I haven't trained since I moved to the UK (except Muay Thai with Paulo Da Silva) so my cardio sucks at the moment, but I still might sign up. Any of you Brits/people who live here?

http://www.bjj.eu.com/images/stories/tournaments/ADCC_UK_open/adcc_ug_london_poster.jpg

Venue:
WESTWAY Sports Centre
1 Crowthorne Road London W10 6RP
United Kingdom

Date: Sunday 1st October 2006

Competitors: £25

Spectators: £5

Event Schedule

Competition starts at 11am

[uncreative]

Report: Bonnar Tests Positive for Steroids After UFC Bout

Thursday, September 07, 2006
by Sherdog.com Staff

The Nevada State Athletic Commission on Wednesday filed a formal complaint against light heavyweight Stephan Bonnar, claiming the UFC 62 competitor tested positive for Boldenone, a banned anabolic agent commonly used by veterinarians to treat horses on the mend, MMAweekly.com reported Wednesday.

Bonnar, best known for his Ultimate Fighter season one runner-up performance, lost a unanimous decision to Forrest Griffin before allegedly providing the tainted sample.

According to the NSAC complaint, Bonnar has 20 days to respond. Should he do so, a hearing in front of the NSAC will be set at which time the five-member regulatory body would make a ruling on the Chicagoan's status.

[Lil Jizzy]

Report: Bonnar Tests Positive for Steroids After UFC Bout

Thursday, September 07, 2006
by Sherdog.com Staff

The Nevada State Athletic Commission on Wednesday filed a formal complaint against light heavyweight Stephan Bonnar, claiming the UFC 62 competitor tested positive for Boldenone, a banned anabolic agent commonly used by veterinarians to treat horses on the mend, MMAweekly.com reported Wednesday.

Bonnar, best known for his Ultimate Fighter season one runner-up performance, lost a unanimous decision to Forrest Griffin before allegedly providing the tainted sample.

According to the NSAC complaint, Bonnar has 20 days to respond. Should he do so, a hearing in front of the NSAC will be set at which time the five-member regulatory body would make a ruling on the Chicagoan's status.


OH GNOES!!!1111 TEH ROIDS IN TEH UFC?????//// IM FUCKIN POSSIBLE!!11

What a nice kick to the groin to all the nuthugging UFC fans, who hate on Pride (I am not generalizing, I am just refering to this particular group of self appointed MMA "fans"). It's a pleasure to have another piece of evidence, that there are fighters in the UFC who roid as well.

[Shua]

OH GNOES!!!1111 TEH ROIDS IN TEH UFC?????//// IM FUCKIN POSSIBLE!!11

What a nice kick to the groin to all the nuthugging UFC fans, who hate on Pride (I am not generalizing, I am just refering to this particular group of self appointed MMA "fans"). It's a pleasure to have another piece of evidence, that there are fighters in the UFC who roid as well.

This is not a shot at you necessarily, but somehow the idiots from sherdog find their way here, see an MMA thread, and have to bring the shit that is all over what is possibly the most retarded message board on the interenet thinking you are intelligent on the sport when all you really know is to spew is things like, Pride rules you noob, UFC sucks. Sylvia couldn’t beat the top 20 HW in Pride. Chuck will die if he fights Wandy. Rickson by arm bar. Seriously, if you people want to hurt your brains go read the forums at Sherdog.net.

Focus: No one here is nut hugging the UFC and hating on Pride. If you read the thread( I know reading is probably not a strong suit for someone of your intelligence) the fans that have quite a bit of MMA knowledge know about Pride and tend to enjoy both about equally. I personally enjoy watching a fight in a cage, but prefer no elbows and allowing stomps and knees to the head on the ground. Both orgs have there pluses and minuses. MMA is a growing sport that needs to attract new fans. That is why things like TUF are great even though we end up with tons of people that think Griffin and Bonnar are legitimate title contenders. Many of the people on here are new to the sport and are learning and have learned quite a bit. Give them time. They know UFC because that is what they are exposed to. Slowly as they become more knowledgeable fans Pride will become part of there viewing pleasure. Any true fan appreciates both orgs as well as the smaller ones.

As far as steroids go, at least they are testing for them in the UFC. If you have such an issue with the use of them that should be a plus. How many negative tests has the UFC had. Look at Pride and tell me that more people aren't juicing.

[uncreative]

All fighters are tested in the UFC before a title bout. They randomly test some of the guys on the undercard. Roids aren't much of a problem at the top of the UFC (Bonnar was on his way out before this anyway)... they really can't afford having congress tear into them over it like MLB/NHL/etc.

[Lil Jizzy]

Focus: No one here is nut hugging the UFC and hating on Pride. If you read the thread( I know reading is probably not a strong suit for someone of your intelligence) the fans that have quite a bit of MMA knowledge know about Pride and tend to enjoy both about equally. I personally enjoy watching a fight in a cage, but prefer no elbows and allowing stomps and knees to the head on the ground. Both orgs have there pluses and minuses. MMA is a growing sport that needs to attract new fans. That is why things like TUF are great even though we end up with tons of people that think Griffin and Bonnar are legitimate title contenders. Many of the people on here are new to the sport and are learning and have learned quite a bit. Give them time. They know UFC because that is what they are exposed to. Slowly as they become more knowledgeable fans Pride will become part of there viewing pleasure. Any true fan appreciates both orgs as well as the smaller ones.

As far as steroids go, at least they are testing for them in the UFC. If you have such an issue with the use of them that should be a plus. How many negative tests has the UFC had. Look at Pride and tell me that more people aren't juicing.

Indeed there is alot of juicing in Pride, as steroids are legal in Japan, but there's also been two UFC former HW Champs been caught roiding etc. I was NOT taking a shot at anyone in particular on this forum, with the Pride Hater/Tuf n00b statement. I don't see why any true fan should appreciate both orgs. I DO like some UFC Fighters and watch certain matches as well, but overall it's really amateurish and I hate Dana White, especially for being full of shit and starting the whole Wandy vs Chuck hype, a fight that will never happen. At least not any time soon.

And just to damage your brain:

Genki by flying triangle.

[Shua]

Indeed there is alot of juicing in Pride, as steroids are legal in Japan, but there's also been two UFC former HW Champs been caught roiding etc. I was NOT taking a shot at anyone in particular on this forum, with the Pride Hater/Tuf n00b statement. I don't see why any true fan should appreciate both orgs. I DO like some UFC Fighters and watch certain matches as well, but overall it's really amateurish and I hate Dana White, especially for being full of shit and starting the whole Wandy vs Chuck hype, a fight that will never happen. At least not any time soon.

And just to damage your brain:

Genki by flying triangle.

Pride is the reason the Wandy - Chuck fight is not happening. Dana has tried to get this fight done numerous times. Chuck went over there to fight Wandy and Pride backed out and made him fight in Middleweight tournament which unfortunately he only made it to the semis. This is a fight that Chuck and the UFC absolutely want to happen. You are crazy if you think otherwise.

Both fighters want this to happen and so does Dana. Pride is dragging their feet. It is a shame if it doesn’t happen but you can’t blame Dana for that. He may be an arrogant prick but he has a lot to do with the boom in mixed martial arts in this country. The UFC wouldn’t even exist if Zuffa hadn’t bought them.

I don’t see how you think any true fan should only enjoy Pride. Is it a deeper org? Absolutely, but UFC gives us some great fights. Chuck vs. Babalu was a match up of two top 10 if not top 5 205 pounders. We are getting Penn vs. Hughes which is a match up of 2 of the best fighters in the world at any weight. Pride doesn’t even have a 170 class so all of the world’s talent at that weight is in the UFC and other American organization. A true fan enjoys a good fight regardless of who puts it on.

[Lil Jizzy]

Pride is the reason the Wandy - Chuck fight is not happening. Dana has tried to get this fight done numerous times. Chuck went over there to fight Wandy and Pride backed out and made him fight in Middleweight tournament which unfortunately he only made it to the semis. This is a fight that Chuck and the UFC absolutely want to happen. You are crazy if you think otherwise.

Both fighters want this to happen and so does Dana. Pride is dragging their feet. It is a shame if it doesn’t happen but you can’t blame Dana for that. He may be an arrogant prick but he has a lot to do with the boom in mixed martial arts in this country. The UFC wouldn’t even exist if Zuffa hadn’t bought them.

Again, Dana is a pathological liar, full of shit... He doesn't have the money to pay for Silva is my guess... He claims he could buy Pride, yet can't even pay for their fighters??

I don’t see how you think any true fan should only enjoy Pride. Is it a deeper org?

I NEVER said that. That's just how it is for me. I also said that I do actually watch certain UFC cards due to certain great matches.

Absolutely, but UFC gives us some great fights. Chuck vs. Babalu was a match up of two top 10 if not top 5 205 pounders. We are getting Penn vs. Hughes which is a match up of 2 of the best fighters in the world at any weight.

Babalu was a pain to watch. Why does someone try to trade punches, when he swings like an infant? top 5? lol, liddell maybe and babalu only if he had beaten chuck.
2 best fighters? Penn yes, but Hughes?? He'd get destroyed in Pride MW or HW. He might be able to dominate LW and WW, but nothing else.

[breezer79]

Didn't PRIDE recently loose its TV rights in Japan? How do people here see this affecting the Chuck vs Silva fight? Is this possibly the reason that this particular matchup has been raised again or is Dana White just feeding us a line again as so many people seem to think?

Cheers.

[Lil Jizzy]

Didn't PRIDE recently loose its TV rights in Japan? How do people here see this affecting the Chuck vs Silva fight? Is this possibly the reason that this particular matchup has been raised again or is Dana White just feeding us a line again as so many people seem to think?

Cheers.
They lost the Fuji TV broadcasting, due to the Yakuza "scandal". Anyone who didn't think they were Yakuza controlled, is a fool anyway. Just look at their main announcer... the way he dresses, the way he speaks/accent. That and most big corporations in Japan are under Yakuza control to some extent.

Dana White is full of shit, that is all I have to say. I don't see this fight happen in the near future.

[Tonyo33]

They lost the Fuji TV broadcasting, due to the Yakuza "scandal". Anyone who didn't think they were Yakuza controlled, is a fool anyway. Just look at their main announcer... the way he dresses, the way he speaks/accent. That and most big corporations in Japan are under Yakuza control to some extent.

Dana White is full of shit, that is all I have to say. I don't see this fight happen in the near future.

Did Dana fuck your mother or something? I haven't seen this much irrational hatred since the college football thread.

You managed to make Dana the villian for everything, yet you make excuses that most big corporations in Japan are under Yakuza control to some extent for Pride.

As a private company, you have not clue how much in assets Zuffa has, as they have no reporting requirements. Considering the two senior partners also run a couple of successful casinos in Las Vegas, I'm such they have the cash flow or access to debt to buy Pride if they wanted to.

[Shua]

Again, Dana is a pathological liar, full of shit... He doesn't have the money to pay for Silva is my guess... He claims he could buy Pride, yet can't even pay for their fighters?? How do you know he is a pathological liar. Has he fucked your girlfriend after promising to watch over her while you were out of town? Did he fuck you over on a pyramid scheme and you lost your life saving? What has he done to make him a pathological liar? Prick maybe. You have no proof of this but read it all the time because it is the in thing to do among MMA fans. As far as American MMA the only person more important to its growth as a sport than Dana is Royce Gracie.



I NEVER said that. That's just how it is for me. I also said that I do actually watch certain UFC cards due to certain great matches.

Really? You should learn to read your posts before you put them up.

I don't see why any true fan should appreciate both orgs.



Babalu was a pain to watch. Why does someone try to trade punches, when he swings like an infant? top 5? lol, liddell maybe and babalu only if he had beaten chuck. Babalu may have been a pain to watch but he was on a ten fight win streak which included a victory over Mauricio “Shogun” Rua who many will argue is the best in the world at 205 and beat some other fairly accomplished fighters along the way. It’s not like he amassed that streak fighting at the state fair in tough man competitions. He was a top 5 205 pounder going into the fight.



2 best fighters? Penn yes, but Hughes?? He'd get destroyed in Pride MW or HW. He might be able to dominate LW and WW, but nothing else.

This is why I know you are from sherdog. Because you think that because Hughes would get dominated at MW and LHW in Pride he is not good. He should get dominated, he fights at 170. That is why they have weight classes retard. But Shua, he walks around at 190. Well most of the MW walk around at 205. See Franklin, Hendo, ect. By the way, Pride does not have WW. Other that Fedor, I don’t know if there is a better all around fighter than Hughes.

[Lil Jizzy]

How dare you compare Hughes to Fedor??

Plus you said best fighter in all weight classes, hence I said Penn yes, Hughes no. Even if you meant pound for pound, Hughes is nowhere near as dominating as Silva, Fedor, Nogueira, Shogun or Penn is his prime.

[breezer79]

How dare he compare? Who are you, Fedor's Mother? Matt Hughes is a great Champion in his own right and while I feel that Fedor is just an absolute machine he can still be beaten, just like any fighter that steps into the ring/octagon. Given the list of names you mentioned you're obviously a one eyed Pride supporter. Nothing wrong with that, but why talk so much shit about the UFC?

[Lil Jizzy]

How dare he compare? Who are you, Fedor's Mother? Matt Hughes is a great Champion in his own right and while I feel that Fedor is just an absolute machine he can still be beaten, just like any fighter that steps into the ring/octagon. Given the list of names you mentioned you're obviously a one eyed Pride supporter. Nothing wrong with that, but why talk so much shit about the UFC?

Penn isn't a Pride fighter. Plus it's not like the UFC has anyone great, who'd be worth listing. Hughes has talent, but he has a lot of flaws as well.

Fedor can be beaten then, yes? By who? That big mouth Timmy "Huge Clumsy Weak Ass Punch Bitch Boy" Sylvia? Ninja please. Cro Cop? Ninja please. Nogueira for the 4th time? No dog. Barnett who can't even deal with Cro Cop's GnP? Fedor would beat him into a coma.

Hunt could beat him, if he improves his groundgame and submission defense, as he has the chin to take Fedor's heavy hands. Nogueira if he stops shooting so slow, moving so slow. Perhaps Werdum, if his striking got better, but I don't really think he has the chin to deal with Fedor. Zenzov vs Fedor would be an interesting matchup, as I believe Zenzov has the power in his fists to actually score a TKO/KO vs Fedor.

[breezer79]

I know Penn isn't a Pride fighter, but he was the only one you mentioned that isn't. That said, I agree with your assessment of Fedor and Tim Sylvia :) but that doesn't mean Fedor can't be beaten. It may not be by one of the current crop of top fighters, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. As for Hughes, I'll agree that the last time he met Penn he showed that he was vulnerable to submission, but the guy is just so strong that he can usually get himself out of trouble.

Cheers.

[Lil Jizzy]

I know Penn isn't a Pride fighter, but he was the only one you mentioned that isn't. That said, I agree with your assessment of Fedor and Tim Sylvia :) but that doesn't mean Fedor can't be beaten. It may not be by one of the current crop of top fighters, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. As for Hughes, I'll agree that the last time he met Penn he showed that he was vulnerable to submission, but the guy is just so strong that he can usually get himself out of trouble.

Cheers.

He gives up his back like a bitch, hence I thought washed up and old Gracie might Mata Leon him into unconsciousnes. Penn has fought the likes of Machida, something Hughes probably never would dare to think of, as he'd get his ass beaten badly. Also strenght doesn't equal skill. Coleman and Randleman are both as strong as an ox, yet they get beaten up and submitted. I am not saying he is a can or anything, but he's just a tad bit overrated. He's great for a UFC Fighter and one of the few I actually watch fighting, even though I am not really fond of the UFC and their stable.


What's your thoughts on the OWGP? I was heavily disappointed with the most untalented fighter winning it and how the Silva vs CC match went. Funnily enough I said to my girlfriend "With his eye that fucked up, he won't see the high kick coming or mistake it for a kick to the ripcage. I hope he can take it (as he has great recovery)." 5 seconds later Cro Cop throws his kick and Silva goes down. I was so pissed off, I wanted to smash my screen...

Then Barnett wins the split decision against Nog. It was really close and I do think he won, but I knew he was too tired and beaten up, to effectively fight Gay err Cro Cop... Then he fucking taps to that little bit of GnP. WTF? Why talk about becoming Champ, when you can't even take Cro Cop's GnP?! Typical, big mouthed American. Even worse that he was a Pro Wrestler.

Anyway, I am really disappointed with Silva's and Nog's performance. I love Silva to the point of almost gayness, but I would've thought it'd be him against Nog in the final, with Nog getting the win. But atleast now I don't have to worry about Fedor destroying him.

Your thoughts on the OWGP in general (the idea of the owgp, matchups)? the gp fights, the latest card (incl. undercard) and on cc winning it + his upcoming match with Fedor.

My prediction:

Last time Fedor went easy on him, humiliated him, fucked with his head alot (CC mentioned retirement thoughts after the Fedor fight) by controlling the fight in alot aspects. Pace, Stand Up, Ground totally dominated by Fedor. Cro Cop was constantly back peddling. (I guess that's why he brought shoes against Mark Hunt, so he could run faster ;)).
However I think Fedor will beat him into retirement for real this time, considering that his hand is healed now and that there's no reason any more to go easy just for the sake of humiliating him.

[Mike Gill]

This is the end of discussion on Pride VS. UFC. They are both good orgainzations that have moved the sport forward and both have thier short comings.

From this point on you can mention things like "well if UFC were to allow X then Y may happen".

But no more Pride is better than UFC because of X,Y,Z. Go debate that on Sherdog or Bullshido with 16 year old kids.

[aarons]

Chuck said that one of the reasons the Silva fight is not happening is because UFC doesn't want to pay Silva the money he is demanding - they instead want pride to pay it - especially if Silva is coming over for one fight. This is coming directly from Liddell in private.

It's not that unreasonable of Dana if he cannot sign Silva to a three fight contract on UFC terms. Silva can just come in, rock liddell, and introduce the world to Pride (which Dana did like a dumbass when he allowed Silva to call out Chuck). If he can't work out the contract its better to leave this fight alone, at least for his business.

Anyways, the fight would had shut a lot of people up. Too bad it's not happening - I will have to continue to hear the same bullshit rants about Liddell vs. Silva. Liddell is getting old too so if he doesn't do it now people will always argue he wasn't in his prime if it happens sometime in the future.

[DannyMac]

Anyways, the fight would had shut a lot of people up.

I think you greatly overestimate the logical reasoning skills of the majority of retarded fanboys out there.

As far as I'm concerned, I say fuck shutting people up. I want to see this fight, because I get back into this sport I realize it will be a great fight. I like Chuck from what I've seen of him fighting and as a coach on The Ultimate Fighter, but if Silva can work his shit then more power to him. The losers here are all of the fans who care about seeing a potentially great fight.

[AnotherName]

I really wish the Silva/Liddell fight would happen. MMA is too small a sport for PRIDE and UFC to fuck each other over. They should work together to make the high profile exciting fights happen. Then, once they have a larger piece of the pie, they can go back to the old arrangement of pretending the other doesn't exist and competing for market shares.

in other news I recently read an interview where Penn stated hes not training super hard because he burned out last time he really pushed himself. This greatly upsets me since I hate Matt Hughes (I respect him immensly, but I hate him as a person) and Bj is one of the only people that has a chance to take the belt.

I really hope Penn is just saying that to mind fuck Matt, but he does have a reputation for slacking off.

[aarons]

I really wish the Silva/Liddell fight would happen. MMA is too small a sport for PRIDE and UFC to fuck each other over. They should work together to make the high profile exciting fights happen. Then, once they have a larger piece of the pie, they can go back to the old arrangement of pretending the other doesn't exist and competing for market shares.

in other news I recently read an interview where Penn stated hes not training super hard because he burned out last time he really pushed himself. This greatly upsets me since I hate Matt Hughes (I respect him immensly, but I hate him as a person) and Bj is one of the only people that has a chance to take the belt.

I really hope Penn is just saying that to mind fuck Matt, but he does have a reputation for slacking off.

Bj penn has trained hard for only two fights, that's it. He never trained hard. He is always kicking it at the clubs in vegas.

[Gylius]

Some of my instructors are really good friends with BJ Penn. And he told them that for this fight, "he was off the bottle." In which case I'm very excited to see it.

[AnotherName]

Wow Hughes is going to have a big weight advantage over Bj. If Penn is comming in 4 lbs under that means he did no cutting and I'm sure Hughes will be at 180 or 185 by the time they fight.

[clkx88]

Does anyone know where I could find a feed for the PPV tonight?

[Porgee]

PM me for a feed. No guarantees on its quality.

[Porgee]

Ho.Lee.Shit.

Hughes-Penn 2 was officially the most intense fight ever. The electricity in the Pond was unbelievable. I honestly thought Hughes was done, he was getting schooled, but Hughes being the machine he is, burned BJ out, and probably broke his hand on BJ's face. Fantastic fight. Amazing.

[aarons]

Hughes wishes he had half the talent as BJ penn.

Fucking Penn, god damn you and your shitty conditioning!!!!

[Porgee]

BJ's conditioning isn't his biggest problem, its his attitude. He is such a natural athlete that he has never had to work for anything in his life. If he changed his attitude, he could arguably be the first fighter to win a belt in 3 weight classes (LW, WW, and to a lesser extent MW). But this time, heart and hard work beat pure athleticism.

EDIT: Full UFC 63 results here: UFC 63 Results (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2670&zoneid=2)

[JOD]

Thanks for the feed info Porgee. That Hughes/Penn fight was amazing. Also, very glad to see Rashad Evans FINALLY finish a fight. He really looked great.

Missed the Pulver fight. Did he just get caught with a haymaker?

[aarons]

BJ's conditioning isn't his biggest problem, its his attitude. He is such a natural athlete that he has never had to work for anything in his life. If he changed his attitude, he could arguably be the first fighter to win a belt in 3 weight classes (LW, WW, and to a lesser extent MW). But this time, heart and hard work beat pure athleticism.

EDIT: Full UFC 63 results here: UFC 63 Results (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2670&zoneid=2)

BJ showed everybody what a world class grappler is like. Not some well conditioned farmboy roid (HGH whatever the fuck he is on) user. Where did matt beat him, not boxing or wrestling, the two things HE "trains", he beat him in cardio. That's the best matt hughes will get. BJ can get cardio (if he wasn't such a bitch). No way matt hughes can improve to be as good as BJ on the ground or standing. This is it. If BJ had matt's cardio it would be SCARY - he would be a CAGED animal.

BJ was going to drop the arm bar. 10 more seconds and it was over. He was moving his elbow up, hughes arm was going to be over if that bell didn't ring.

But ya, Bj is defintley his own worse enemy.

Well guys, if u want to beat a world JJ champ, ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS!!!!

And Dana needs to get the fuck off of Hughes Balls. What a fucking chode.

[AnotherName]

Matt didn't win tonight in the ring, he won in the gym a month ago.


I love Bj Penn, maybe after GSP and tonight he will start working hard and become the legend we all know he could be.

[Bizznatch]

BJ is such an incredibly talented athelete. It's so unfortunate that he doesn't have the dedication to train the way you have to for a 25 minute fight. I think they should change the rules so that you can't be saved by the end of a round. If one fighter is in a severely disadvantagous position like getting the life choked out of you and your arm nearly broken, the fight should continue until he escapes or gets to a neutral position.

[MikeT]

Matt didn't win tonight in the ring, he won in the gym a month ago.


I love Bj Penn, maybe after GSP and tonight he will start working hard and become the legend we all know he could be.

He won it 6 weeks ago before Penn even got the fight. Title fights with replacements are retarded, because obviously the replacement wont be near as good conditioned

[Shua]

BJ's conditioning isn't his biggest problem, its his attitude. He is such a natural athlete that he has never had to work for anything in his life. If he changed his attitude, he could arguably be the first fighter to win a belt in 3 weight classes (LW, WW, and to a lesser extent MW). But this time, heart and hard work beat pure athleticism.

EDIT: Full UFC 63 results here: UFC 63 Results (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2670&zoneid=2)

Agree with every word of this. Couldn’t have said it better.

I get so frustrated with BJ. He is my favorite by a long shot. He is hands down the most talented fighter pound for pound. I truly believe that the only person that could beat him under 185 is Rich Franklin if he shows up mentally and in shape. And even then I think it is a 50/50 fight. Hughes is the greatest WW of all time and Penn made him look like a first time UFC fighter for two rounds and then just mailed it in. He did the same thing against GSP.

Overall it was a pretty good PPV. Not as good as the last one but all the fights were entertaining. I need to digest the fights and probably watch them again.

He won it 6 weeks ago before Penn even got the fight. Title fights with replacements are retarded, because obviously the replacement wont be near as good conditioned

6 weeks is plenty of time to get in shape for a fighter. Very few fighters run a camp longer than that. Most fighters stay in pretty good shape all the time and then run a 4 to 6 week camp before the fight.

[nettdata]

I thought it was pretty funny when George St. Pierre got in the ring at the end of the fight and said that he wasn't impressed with Matt's performance, and Matt tried to blow it off. You could tell it pissed him off though... GSP is starting the mental game early.

Can't wait for THAT fight!

[Porgee]

BJ is such an incredibly talented athelete. It's so unfortunate that he doesn't have the dedication to train the way you have to for a 25 minute fight. I think they should change the rules so that you can't be saved by the end of a round. If one fighter is in a severely disadvantagous position like getting the life choked out of you and your arm nearly broken, the fight should continue until he escapes or gets to a neutral position.

I'm sorry, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Do NFL teams get one last chance at a 4th and inches after being stuffed on the goal line? I think you are just venting, cause otherwise you would have thought before you spoke.

[aarons]

I'm sorry, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Do NFL teams get one last chance at a 4th and inches after being stuffed on the goal line? I think you are just venting, cause otherwise you would have thought before you spoke.

Shit would be solved and we wouldn't run into any stupid bullshit like this if they had longer rounds like pride OR they fucking just had no rounds, like the glory days.

I wouldn't say its the dumbest remark ever. And the football comment is way out of context in regards to his idea. Something should be changed. BJ had it won.

[Bizznatch]

It just seems like too many fights seem to end with a really close sub attempt, especially chokes, where someone gets saved by the bell only to come out the next round and pound ass. It happened in TUF3 with Jesse and Josh Haynes, just as one example.

[AnotherName]

the problem is that if you get rid of the time limit then you have the old lay and pray fights that everyone hated. if you give them time for a near miss submission then you have another judgement call thrown in. People would bitch that the ref did/didn't stop the fight at the proper moment.

Face it, Penn did not prepare the way he should and paid for it.

[TheGeneralsDaughter]

Anyone got a link to the fights?

[Shua]

Shit would be solved and we wouldn't run into any stupid bullshit like this if they had longer rounds like pride OR they fucking just had no rounds, like the glory days.

I wouldn't say its the dumbest remark ever. And the football comment is way out of context in regards to his idea. Something should be changed. BJ had it won.

Pride has the exact same length in their fights. It is just a 10 minute first and a second 5. It wouldn't make any difference. It was about the dumbest comment ever. BJ did not have it won. He couldn't finish the fight in the context of the rules.

Anyone got a link to the fights?

Try youtube. They go up and down all the time right after the PPV. Just search.

[Supernova]

when I was watching the PPV, I'm pretty sure I heard that Matt Hamill, Ed Herman and Kendall Grove would be fighting in the spike show upcoming in october. Anyone else heard anything more about this? I'm excited to see Matt Hamill fight again, especially after training with everyone at Big Bear.

[aarons]

Pride has the exact same length in their fights. It is just a 10 minute first and a second 5. It wouldn't make any difference. It was about the dumbest comment ever. BJ did not have it won. He couldn't finish the fight in the context of the rules.



Try youtube. They go up and down all the time right after the PPV. Just search.

That's exactly what i'm talking about in regards to pride.

[Blowmeup]

ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS ROIDS!!!!

Your point is what? You think Matt Hughes is on steroids? If you think that you are a simpleton. Matt's body type and build have not changed at all in 5 or 6 yrs. There are tell-tale signs of roid usage and he exhibits none of them.

Hard work and determination are what won Matt this fight. BJ had him dead to rights in the 2nd and he gassed. Look at BJ's history: Incredible talent, rich family, no work ethic..... He says "everything bores me, except fighting", and THATS HIS PROBLEM. Great fighters love to train. They are inspired to train. They have a burning desire within them.

BJ doesnt care enough. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and gods gift to fighting in his body. Most fighters would give their life to have his talent. Personally, I love to watch BJ fight, but I see him running a gym in obscurity in Hilo, Hawaii.

BJ: You dont have the work ethic. Retire gracefully, please. It was painful watching you be a punching bag in the 3rd.....

[AnotherName]

BJ: You dont have the work ethic. Retire gracefully, please. It was painful watching you be a punching bag in the 3rd.....

I would ammend that to:

BJ you dont have the work ethic. Drop down to 155.

I still like penn, but if he really has no intention of training like a big boy, he should just drop down to his natural weight class where he can dominate people without working hard.

Maybe this fight will inspire him (like Hughes in the same situation) and he will start really training and we can get a badass rematch or a good fight versus GSP.

[Angelo]

For those looking for UFC 63 videos:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1266020

(as much as t-nation bases its website on the selling of their particular brands of snake oil, it's good for shit like this. I figure the quality of these videos beats those on youtube.)

[Nish]

To all those saying BJ looked gassed it wasn't due to poor training, it was due to the fact that he seperated a rib when he took matt's back in the second. He refused to quit and had what was probably the shittiest 5 minutes of his life.

[HypnoToad]

Ridiculous Childlike Bullshit

You are a complete fucking moron and a lost cause. Everyone is now dumber for having read your post. You would be far more comfortable on Sherdog with the other children.

BJ showed everybody what a world class grappler is like

Because nothing shows world class like getting pounded out on the ground. You would think a world class grappler could go for more than 15 minutes.

Where did matt beat him

http://www.ufcfightnews.com/ufc63-report/images/ufc63-hughes0020.jpg

Matt Hughes beat him when he pinned Penn's shoulder to the ground and pounded him in the head until the fight had to be stopped. Technical knockout 3:53 in the third round.

That's the best matt hughes will get

He's the current and two time UFC Welterweight Champion and has successfully defended his belt nine times. Overall record 42 wins with 4 losses. What exactly do you want him to do?

No way matt hughes can improve to be as good as BJ on the ground

Technical knockout 3:53 in the third round. Conditioning is part of ground fighting.

ROIDS

There is mandatory drug screening for all MMA fighters in sanctioned events.

[AnotherName]

To all those saying BJ looked gassed it wasn't due to poor training, it was due to the fact that he seperated a rib when he took matt's back in the second. He refused to quit and had what was probably the shittiest 5 minutes of his life.


wait...what? How do you know that? Thats really shitty if true but at least it restores my faith in Bj Penn.

[Nish]

I found out from a friend who was at the hospital, somehow when he made that slick transition to hughes back he seperated it. BJ has the heart though and he didn't want to quit so he kept on going, that's why he looked completely beaten when the third round started.

[Porgee]

If that is true, I'm sure it affected BJ, but wasn't the main factor. You could see at the start of the third that BJ could barely stand up, his legs were so rubbery. Same thing happened to Dean Lister at Fight Night. He spent all of his energy trying to go balls out on one sub attempt, and gassed out. You can't argue that Hughes was in better shape than BJ. I'm not ripping on BJ, I think he was destroying Hughes in the first two rounds, and if he goes down to LW, he can dominate.

[Shua]

There is mandatory drug screening for all MMA fighters in sanctioned events.

They test all championship fights and one or two randon fights each event. You can see this at their site.

[HypnoToad]

They test all championship fights and one or two randon fights each event. You can see this at their site.

Well, the Hughes fight was a championship fight so I'm not sure what your point is here other than to fence with me. 2 random tests seems like a pretty good deterent to me. The fight was in California and they've been really strict since allowing MMA in the state. The California commision didn't allow Kimo to fight Bas Rutten because of that shit.

[nettdata]

Say what you want about BJ, but I was impressed all to hell with his flexibility and takedown defence in the first 2 rounds. The shit he was doing while Matt had his one leg was insane.

It'd be interesting to see if the "separated rib" thing pans out or not.

Still, Matt was in WAY better shape than BJ. If BJ came in with close to the same cardio, I think he would have won without doubt.

[HypnoToad]

Say what you want about BJ, but I was impressed all to hell with his flexibility and takedown defence in the first 2 rounds. The shit he was doing while Matt had his one leg was insane.

It'd be interesting to see if the "separated rib" thing pans out or not.

Still, Matt was in WAY better shape than BJ. If BJ came in with close to the same cardio, I think he would have won without doubt.

Dude, I'm a BJ fan. I'm a Matt Hughes fan. I respect everybody at such a high level. It's just intolerable to read posts explaining away the loss. I've read how the rules of the UFC need to be changed to maximize the one instance that BJ had an advantage in the fight. We've also heard about how BJ didn't have enough time to train. Now an injury conspiracy has reared its ugly head. I'm just advancing the theory that Matt Hughes won the fight because he's fucking good and BJ couldn't deal with the shit on Saturday. Even if he was hurt, that's part of the sport.

[nettdata]

Don't get me wrong... the match was what it was, and Matt won the thing convincingly. I'm just saying that if things were just tweaked a little bit (like BJ being in better shape), it could have gone the other way.

I just don't think that you can dismiss BJ out of hand as some others seem to be doing, that's all.

As it sits right now, I'll always be interested in seeing BJ and Matt go at it, as I think that there's a good chance that either of them could win.

[HypnoToad]

Don't get me wrong... the match was what it was, and Matt won the thing convincingly. I'm just saying that if things were just tweaked a little bit (like BJ being in better shape), it could have gone the other way.

I just don't think that you can dismiss BJ out of hand as some others seem to be doing, that's all.

As it sits right now, I'll always be interested in seeing BJ and Matt go at it, as I think that there's a good chance that either of them could win.

Two words - Rubber Match

If I have to put up with Ortiz/Shamrock 3 the powers that be better show me that shit again. I've probably purchased the last 20 UFC's and Hughes/Penn was one the most entertaining fights I've ever seen. BJ is the sort of athlete that is straight up amazing. Matt Hughes is a physical freak. It's sort of an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object. The unstoppable force won and I got my money's worth. It was just high time that someone mentions that the fight result have something to do with Matt Hughes being pretty good.

[aarons]

Dude, I'm a BJ fan. I'm a Matt Hughes fan. I respect everybody at such a high level. It's just intolerable to read posts explaining away the loss. I've read how the rules of the UFC need to be changed to maximize the one instance that BJ had an advantage in the fight. We've also heard about how BJ didn't have enough time to train. Now an injury conspiracy has reared its ugly head. I'm just advancing the theory that Matt Hughes won the fight because he's fucking good and BJ couldn't deal with the shit on Saturday. Even if he was hurt, that's part of the sport.

For sure.

JD (his brother) said he cracked two ribs on his left side which i guess explains the round 3 drop off in performance..i'll find out more from him soon.

[nettdata]

Oh HELL yeah... Matt isn't "good", he's GREAT.

It might be that people see the potential in BJ and try to give him the benefit of the doubt and make excuses for him... I don't know.

Put just about anyone else in the ring with Matt and it's no contest... he'll wipe them out, unless something freaky happens.

[Bizznatch]

St. Pierre / Hughes 2 should be amazing. Hughes is a great fighter, and not to take anything away from him, but it just seems like against top opponents things happen to go his way at just the right time. For example, he lost those 2 rounds to BJ and BJ couldn't come out in the 3rd to fight. Also in the first round with St. Pierre where he came up with that armbar in the last 5 seconds of the round and caught George. Not to say that he didn't deserve those wins or that fighting isn't about catching someone. But he didn't really dominate either one of those fights for the majority of the battle. Although, his other title defenses have been impressive, all the guys that he fought at the time who were at the top of the game seem to have fallen off. Riggs, Trigg, etc.

Point being, Hughes' game has some pretty big holes, specifically his standup. If he can't take the fight the the ground, he's in a world of shit as evidenced by his first two rounds against Penn.

[Attitude]

but it just seems like against top opponents things happen to go his way at just the right time. For example, he lost those 2 rounds to BJ and BJ couldn't come out in the 3rd to fight.

Things don't just happen to go his way, from what I've heard and read Hughes trains as hard as anybody. If BJ "slipped a rib" (is that a medical term) maybe it was from overextending himself or maybe it was from Hughes kicking him in the side. BJ just doesn't have the stamina to throw down with Hughes. BJ is clearly a better grappler, probably a better boxer and much more flexible. However, Hughes has much more stamina. I don't get why people seem to discount this. Hughes just beat the shit out of BJ in the last round, far worse than anybody has ever beat on BJ. After the BJ/GSP fight, GSP won but had to go to the hospital. Thats not the case here.

Great fight, I really respect and admire both fighters. I'd love to see a third match.

[aarons]

Sunday, 24th September 2006 at 10:14PM
Back in Hawaii - BJ Talks About Yesterday's Title Fight.
Posted by BJPenn.com Staff Writer
After just arriving back in Hawaii, BJ talks about the outcome of his tough UFC 63 title fight against Matt Hughes which took place yesterday evening at Arrowhead Pond in Anahiem CA.

Interviewer:
So BJ how are you doing?

BJ:
I just got back to Hawaii. I'm resting up, I have some injuries. Other than that I'm okay.

Interviewer:
So you just fought Matt Hughes. Could you walk us through the first round?

BJ:
I felt good, I was happy that I was defending Matt's takedowns. I could see that Matt improved his standup. I wish I tried some takedowns, but other than that I was happy with it.

Interviewer:
You say he improved his standup. How?

BJ:
He was dodging my punches well, and he had a good jab.

Interviewer:
What did you think of his takedowns?

BJ:
His takedowns were good and strong, exactly what I expected.

Interviewer:
Take us through the second round.

BJ:
I felt great going in, Matt started trying to take me down from my right leg, it's something I expected he might do. He got me down against the fence, but I was thinking about this position alot and I was ready. When he went for a big elbow, he missed and I capitalized and started going for his back. At this moment, when I was making the turn towards his back, I felt my ribs seperate on my right side. Although I didn't know the severity of the situation. I was thinking I have to finish him now because I knew something was wrong. Matt defended himself well and got through the round. When I got up to walk to my corner, I knew something was wrong, but I didn't want to talk about it with my corner. I wanted to be the champ. I wanted to keep fighting.

Interviewer:
What about round 3?

BJ:
I remember standing up out of the corner in pain. But I was thinking, "Earn your title this is what you have to do to get your belt back, fight through the pain". I knew the oppurtunity I had with getting this fight, especially after losing my last fight. I wasn't going to quit on the corner. I kept going because I honestly believed it was destiny. When me and Matt were boxing I felt like I couldn't breathe and had no mobility in my core. But I kept thinking something good is going to happen. When Matt started dominating the stand up I tried for a takedown. I had nothing and pulled to guard. I felt like I couldn't do anything on the ground. But I was still positive. Matt hit me in the ribs from half guard. The pain was so excruciating I had to use my far hand to block it. I would rather Matt pass my guard and punch my face the hit my ribs. When Matt was in his favorite position that he likes. I was still thinking I was going to win somehow. Big John gave me plenty of time. I practiced defending against that position with flexibility, but I had none with my core. Even when Big John stopped the fight, I was still so positive I thought I escaped. Congratulations to Matt, he is a great fighter. It's not his fault that that happened, he fought like the champion he is. He deserved the victory.

Interviewer:
So how are your ribs doing now?

BJ:
There just hurting, I couldn't sleep last night, I couldn't lay down, Every time I breathe it expands my ribcage and aggrevates my ribs.

Interviewer:
How do you think your conditioning was for this fight?

BJ:
I was training great. I trained 5 to 6 rounds a couple times a week. I was also doing explosive cardio and getting proper rest.

Interviewer:
Anything to say to your fans?

BJ:
Thanks for your support. I already got a lot of emails from my fans. Thank you very much.
Keep checking my site and I'll keep you posted.

Interviewer:
So what is next for BJ Penn?

BJ:
I've got to take care of my ribs, so I'm taking 2 months off, and my suspension for the TKO. I talked to Dana and he said to give him a call when I'm ready to fight. It takes a long time to prepare for these fights and I'm very disappointed I got injured like that. I gotta sit down for a couple weeks and clear my head and see where I am in fighting.

[pushit]

Here's the UFC 63 Hughes/Penn fight.
http://www.tubewad.com/ufc-63-hughes-vs-penn-941-p.html

It'll no doubt get taken down soon, so watch it while you can.

[nettdata]

What did BJ mean "the suspension for the TKO"?

Do fighters get an automatic "time out" if they lose by TKO?

[aarons]

What did BJ mean "the suspension for the TKO"?

Do fighters get an automatic "time out" if they lose by TKO?

I know for KO's there is a ninety day suspension by the athletic commission.

TKO's maybe have similar suspensions, but it might be less.

It's for obvious medical reasons.

[nettdata]

Ahhh... makes sense.... just never heard of it before.

[AnotherName]

the rib thing does make sense. I have never seen a fighter gas out as bad as Bj did in round two. He was like a punching bag, no movement at all.

It was also strange how Bj made no attempt to move when Matt took him to the ground. Even exhausted it was odd that Penn let Matt pass his guard with such ease. I would expect them to tangle up in half guard or inside Bj's full guard.

His story about rather getting hit in the face than hit in the rib matches up to the 3rd round where he didn't move his torso to escape at all, even while getting pounded in the face by matt. Bj is so flexible and so skilled in jiu-jitsu that he should have at least made an attempt at escaping Hughe's cruxifics.

Hughes still won the fight but Bj deserves a rematch with Hughes or GSP (whoever loses the title shot since giving Bj 2 attempts in such a short amount of time doesn't seem fair)

[frankyl]

the rib thing does make sense. I have never seen a fighter gas out as bad as Bj did in round two. He was like a punching bag, no movement at all.

It was also strange how Bj made no attempt to move when Matt took him to the ground. Even exhausted it was odd that Penn let Matt pass his guard with such ease. I would expect them to tangle up in half guard or inside Bj's full guard.

His story about rather getting hit in the face than hit in the rib matches up to the 3rd round where he didn't move his torso to escape at all, even while getting pounded in the face by matt. Bj is so flexible and so skilled in jiu-jitsu that he should have at least made an attempt at escaping Hughe's cruxifics.

Hughes still won the fight but Bj deserves a rematch with Hughes or GSP (whoever loses the title shot since giving Bj 2 attempts in such a short amount of time doesn't seem fair)This post is reasonable, but a lot of other posts by BJ supporters or Hughes haters seem to discredit the result of the fight due to BJ's rib injury. Why? It's part of the sport. Ribs don't just "separate" on their own; watch the second round of that fight again. I don't disbelieve that BJ's ribs were badly hurt, but it didn't just "happen," it happened because Matt and BJ were fighting and straining on the mat in ways that many people can't even comprehend, and ways that are not obvious if you've never been in the same or a similar position.

I mentioned it before, but I wrestled Matt a few years ago, when I was terribly out of shape. I could have been in the best (NCAA Division I Wrestling) shape of my life, and it wouldn't have mattered a tiny bit. The guy is ridiculously strong. BJ popped his ribs due to the insane pressure Matt was applying to them and the ridiculous pressure BJ was applying in return while he tried to get away. It's part of what happens in a fight...one guy gets hurt because his body can't hold up to the strain that's applied during a portion of the fight, he can't go on in a meaningful fashion, and he loses. That's what happened, and the strain that caused the rib injury is as much creditable to a situation Matt created on the mat as any injury from a punch or arm lock would have been.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that BJ is trying to discredit this fight at all; his interview is straightforward, and he seems to say, "I got hurt trying to fight the guy, and he used that to beat me." No excuses about how he would have won if that didn't happen or any other such nonsense.

BJ had a great fight, but his body didn't hold up to the contest, and he lost. End of story. Does he deserve a rematch down the line? Absolutely. Any time that we can get another great fight (and I'm sure that another fight could be great) I'm all for it.

As to some other members of the "BJ is God, I'm tired of hearing about Hughes" camp, I'm sick of hearing about what would have happened if the second round were only a little longer. BJ might have submitted Matt. But he might not. Watch the very end of the round again; Matt was slipping out of BJ's lock, and that's not only my opinion - the commentators were yelling the same thing. He might not have gotten out, but he might have. BJ's ribs might have given out, and he might have been unable to hold on to the lock if there were another 30 seconds. Or he might have locked Matt up tighter and beat him. Talking about any outcome if there were more time as if it's a given is stupid at this level of competition; anything could have happened.

[uncreative]

Matt Hughes / BJ rubber match after GSP whoops Matt's ass. I'm sorry, but I really think GSP has his number this time. Had BJ not shredded his ribs, I'm sure we'd be seeing BJ / GSP II.

[TheGeneralsDaughter]

As to some other members of the "BJ is God, I'm tired of hearing about Hughes" camp, I'm sick of hearing about what would have happened if the second round were only a little longer. BJ might have submitted Matt. But he might not. Watch the very end of the round again; Matt was slipping out of BJ's lock, and that's not only my opinion - the commentators were yelling the same thing. He might not have gotten out, but he might have. BJ's ribs might have given out, and he might have been unable to hold on to the lock if there were another 30 seconds. Or he might have locked Matt up tighter and beat him. Talking about any outcome if there were more time as if it's a given is stupid at this level of competition; anything could have happened.

I agree with this. I actually believe in the last second or two of the round, Matt was free. That would have put Matt in the side mount with BJ pinned against the cage. It's not a hard stretch for one to believe that BJ would have eaten a large number of vicious elbows and going out. It's just as likely as the crying over BJ would have won if the round was longer. No body knows what would happen.

[Bizznatch]

I agree with this. I actually believe in the last second or two of the round, Matt was free. That would have put Matt in the side mount with BJ pinned against the cage. It's not a hard stretch for one to believe that BJ would have eaten a large number of vicious elbows and going out. It's just as likely as the crying over BJ would have won if the round was longer. No body knows what would happen.

Watch it again. Pretty hard to land a number of vicious elbows with one arm in an armbar.

[TheGeneralsDaughter]

Watch it again. Pretty hard to land a number of vicious elbows with one arm in an armbar.


Read it again, toughguy. Especially the part about being out of the armbar with about 1-2 seconds left in the round. Thanks for playing.

[AnotherName]

the bottom line is the fight was like a highschool girlfriend: very exciting yet somewhat disappointing in the end.


In other news, has anyone seen the razor commercial featuring Silva and Coleman from Japan? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1516070093130551292&q=Silva+Coleman+commercial

How wierd is that?

[aarons]

http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=13f24dc7badfb7a85fd469&skin_id=0&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

Matt Hughes in trouble?

Not sure how legit this guy is.

[Nish]

Matt Hughes has dropped out of the GSP due to a "groin injury". This means that his next fight will likely be against the winner of TUF4 thus pushing his fight with GSP back for a loooong time

[Porgee]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2697&zoneid=2

I just read this and it made me angry. I really thought that Dana was a little more mature than he showed in this interview. Though he may be right about certain aspects, he makes a bad impression, and could have went about this a better way. In my opinion, the Fertittas should tell Dana to tone it down a bit, or even hire a publicist/spokesperson. It can be argued that his charisma and personality are one of the primary reasons for the success of the UFC. But I think his act is starting to become laughable and childish.

[uncreative]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2697&zoneid=2

I just read this and it made me angry. I really thought that Dana was a little more mature than he showed in this interview. Though he may be right about certain aspects, he makes a bad impression, and could have went about this a better way. In my opinion, the Fertittas should tell Dana to tone it down a bit, or even hire a publicist/spokesperson. It can be argued that his charisma and personality are one of the primary reasons for the success of the UFC. But I think his act is starting to become laughable and childish.
He's gotten full of himself and can't take criticism anymore. When someone says something he disagrees with, instead of going with the rational "OK, but...", he jumps straight into the "What, are you retarded?!"

[nettdata]

He's gotten full of himself and can't take criticism anymore. When someone says something he disagrees with, instead of going with the rational "OK, but...", he jumps straight into the "What, are you retarded?!"

I don't know about that... I'm sure there's a SHIT LOAD of stuff going on behind the scenes, and it might have been going on for a long time, and he's just showing that he's finally taken all that he can take.

From what I've seen on TUF and in other interviews he's got next to no tolerance for bullshit, and he has no qualms about calling bullshit when he sees it. It may or may not actually be bullshit, but if he thinks it is, then he says so.

I personally don't see the big deal about the way his "public" persona comes across... if anything, it's rather refreshing to see someone being (apparently) honest with his reactions instead of some PC fuckwad ramble on about how he respects the other person's opinion and feelings.

Hell, it'd be fun to see the two of those guys mix it up in the ring!

[Blowmeup]

he's got next to no tolerance for bullshit

Except his own...

[Nish]

Current rumor is that PDP vs Arlovski is ridiculously close to being signed.

PDP takes it in my mind via his insane ground skills

[Blowmeup]

Current rumor is that PDP vs Arlovski is ridiculously close to being signed.

PDP takes it in my mind via his insane ground skills

If that fight comes about I would bet the house on Arlovski. He has a sick Sambo background and will come into that fight in shape unlike that tub of goo known as Frank Mir. I was a fan of Mir but he has proven to be a huge waste of talent. PDP is not as good of a MMA fighter as Mir made him look.

Arlovskis one weakness is getting hit and PDP presents ZERO risk on his feet.

Arlovski takes that fight, if it happens, in the first 2 minutes.

[Nish]

Arlovski has proved time and again that he has a weak chin but he has never fought someone with the same calibre takedowns and ground game that PDP has. Even if it stays standing it will all depend on what Arlovski shows up, but if it goes to the ground at all it's PDP all the way

[Shua]

Arlovski has proved time and again that he has a weak chin but he has never fought someone with the same calibre takedowns and ground game that PDP has. Even if it stays standing it will all depend on what Arlovski shows up, but if it goes to the ground at all it's PDP all the way

Blowmeup is absolutely correct on this one. PDP does not stand a chance. Brilliant BJJ skills don’t always translate to MMA and Arlovski has plenty good enough skills to easily defend himself on the ground if somehow PDP gets him down. Not a chance PDP knocks out Arvloski. Arlovski by (t)KO or dominating decision.

Edit: This is exactly what the UFC needs to do for Arlovski. A credible opponent that he should beat. No, Arlovski is not the beast he was thought to be before his last 2 fights against Sylvia. He is however not the can people are making him out to be. Good move by the UFC to help keep the name of one of their few decent HWs.

[Nish]

Regardless of who wins and who gets a crack at the title, Vera will still be the best heavyweight the UFC has.

As MMA gets more popular, more people start training at a younger age (specifically north americans). Vera is the first person from this group and will be champion sometime in 2007

[AnotherName]

well Shawn Sherk is the new lightweight champ and Anderson Silva has taken the middleweight belt from Rich Franklin. I was cheering for both these guys, so I'm pretty happy with the result. Now if GSP can beat Hughes and Someone can take out Tim Sylvia we'll be in business.

[aarons]

well Shawn Sherk is the new lightweight champ and Anderson Silva has taken the middleweight belt from Rich Franklin. I was cheering for both these guys, so I'm pretty happy with the result. Now if GSP can beat Hughes and Someone can take out Tim Sylvia we'll be in business.


And kongo is a fraud!

[TuRTtle]

Wow, Rich Franklin was absolutly dominated. Did not see that coming. He is my favorite fighter, and I have to say that was reminiscent of a Shamrock vs Ortiz domination. Completely one sided. Fuck.

[aarons]

I uploaded the fight if you've not seen it (just the main event)\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP6WguyNCKc

Should be up in a few.

Impressive display of Muay Thai

[rashkeyd]

I was absolutely amazed by Sherk, he dropped such a rediculous amount of blood on the ground and still dominated every part of that fight. Everyone in the bar went nuts when Franklin got his ass beat, and his nose looked real pretty afterwards. The fist two fights I watched were boring, but the last two made up for it.

[AnotherName]

And kongo is a fraud!

Not so much a fraud as someone that needs to take some freaking bjj or wrestling classes. If he could defend takedowns or escape on the ground he could be a champion, look at the damage he did with those leg kicks.

[aarons]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j166/archerx3000/Sports/Silva-knee_Franklin-nose.gif

[Gylius]

That was a pretty good knockout by Silva. Franklin's nose is all kinds of fucked up now. Overall, it wasn't the best UFC (definitely not as good as the last), but I almost always enjoy seeing a belt switch hands. It at least proves that the sport isn't sending weak opponents into champions like fucking boxing.

In other news and not 'technically' MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu US Open XI is happening next weekend (21st/22nd). If anyone lives near Santa Cruz, California, it is one of the 2 or 3 biggest tournaments in this country. Nick Diaz is fighting (a name you MMA followers should follow). Some other big names should be there, but I'm not sure everyone would know the exclusively BJJ names.

Anyway if you're competing or want to know more about it, send me a PM (today is the last day to register). There really isn't any other thread that this could belong to, so I thought I'd put it here. If it doesn't belong, a mod is welcome to delete this portion.

[AHM]

I heard a rumor that Franklin also suffered a broken jaw and orbital bone around his eye, and may be forced into retirement as a result. Of course, this was in some random thread in Sherdog, so it's almost certainly bullshit, but has anyone heard anything about this?

[Il Duce]

In the video aarons posted, he seems to be talking just fine, so I doubt the broken jaw is real, and I would expect more swelling if he broke an orbital. I'm not a doctor though, and I'm basing this of a 10 second clip, so I could be wrong.

[uncreative]

He seems to be talking without any obvious discomfort, so I doubt he has a broken jaw... even if he does, that's not really a big deal. Seems to me there'd be a hell of a lot more swelling if he had a broken orbital bone. But what the hell do I know? One thing's for sure... Franklin got his ass handed to him badly enough that I'm not sure there'll be a rubber match for Silva's first title defense.

[tupacbiff]

Maybe Franklin should have dropped down to one knee to start the fight. This would have avoided the clinch right Rich?

[Nish]

Completely avoid any mainstream MMA forum, especially sherdog. Besides the never ending bullshit about pride > ufc or vice versa, it's filled with bad information and generally some of the stupidest people on the planet.

[aarons]

October 18, 2006
PRIDE FIGHTING is proud to announce the official launch of PRIDE FIGHTING ONDEMAND!,
(http://media.pridefc.com) an online service that will unlock PRIDE FIGHTING'S archives to the internet public. In addition to past events, classic bouts, hardcore knockouts, and behind the scenes footage, the service will also feature live pay per view events via internet streaming. PRIDE FIGHTING ONDEMAND! is here now.

PRIDE FIGHTING ONDEMAND! will provide an alternate avenue for fans who do not have access to standard pay per view outlets. Available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, the service gives fans an opportunity to watch their favorite fights and fighters whenever and wherever they like. The service will be available worldwide except for Japan, Korea, Croatia and Brazil.

PRIDE FIGHTING ONDEMAND! will be built and supported by Entriq's (www.entriq.com NASDAQ: NPSN) industry leading commerce and security solutions. The Entriq services will enable PRIDE FIGHTING to make events available on a pay per view, subscription or advertising supported basis and control the distribution of the content to defined geographies.

Upon launch, more than forty bouts will be made available online including the 2004 heavyweight grand prix (featuring Fedor Emelianenko's dominating run through the 16-man tournament) and the 2000 absolute weight grand prix (featuring Mark "The Hammer" Coleman's legendary performance in PRIDE Fighting's first ever tournament). Additional fights will be made available to the library on a weekly basis. Pricing for individual fights will be $1.99 and subscriptions will be available in 1-month, 3-month, and 6-month packages.

In addition, PRIDE FIGHTING'S first show in America, THE REAL DEAL, will be available on PRIDE FIGHTING ONDEMAND! for $39.95. THE REAL DEAL premieres on Saturday, October 21st at 9PM ET/6PM PT.

Additional pride news:

FightOpinion.com reported that the Nevada State Athletic Commission posted that PRIDE will return in Las Vegas on 2/24/07 (PRIDE.33?)

http://boxing.nv.gov/schedule.htm

Dave Meltzer has some PRIDE news.

--This is an update on Saturday night's Pride show as of this afternoon. I want to first note that the term "terrible mismatch" for Mark Hunt vs. Butterbean as an MMA fight was my wording yesterday and not the Nevada commission wording. The reason they will not fight under MMA rules is that Hunt holds wins over Mirko Cro Cop and Wanderlei Silva, while Butterbean's MMA fights have either been against nobodies or matches that weren't held under the Nevada/New Jersey MMA rules (he's done some matches with limited time on the ground). Nothing has changed from yesterday. Pride's first choice is Butterbean vs. Hunt in a boxing match. Butterbean still needs to pass an MRI to get sanctioned but he's doing that today. He said his first choice would be the boxing match with Hunt. Hunt has agreed to it but there are still visa issues and he is currently out of the country trying to work them out. There is a deadline of 9 a.m. on Friday for him to be in Nevada and get cleared to fight. Sean O'Haire is the sanctioned opponent for Butterbean, under MMA rules, if Hunt isn't cleared. We will update if or when Hunt does get cleared.

--Josh Barnett is still also not officially cleared to face Pawel Nastula on Saturday. Barnett failed a steroid test in 2002 while fighting for UFC in a match where he defeated Randy Couture in Las Vegas. He needs to provide a clean test to be sanctioned. Barnett took a test in September in Newport Beach, but somehow his sample was lost (don't read into it that he failed and it disappeared because this story has been checked out and the sample really did disappear). He took a second test in Newport Beach on 10/7 and was told he would have the results by now. However, the lab still does not have the results. He then took another test today in Las Vegas with a rush put on it. This lab has assured Barnett and the commission that if Barnett is not clean, they will alert both tomorrow. Both labs have been told that if there is not confirmation of a clean test by 10 a.m. on Friday, then Barnett will not be allowed to fight.

--Pride has been going full throttle with fighters like Barnett and Nastula training yesterday at Caesar's Place before the public with a ring set up. there was press from all over the U.S., Japan and France filming the sessions. Nastula's training partners got lost in the casino. They had to use an intern from the Los Angeles office to stand in until they were found 15 minutes into the session at a blackjack table.

--The number of tickets sold as of this morning for the show was 10,000, so the show as far as live attendance is already a success.
=======
Fight Opinion also reported that the sponsor for the PRIDE.32 show is Cykan Entertainment, a Korean online gaming company, created by Kim Jung Ryool, the former boss of Gravity Corporation (most famous for Ragnarok Online). One of Cykan's games that is coming up is "Real Fighting Championship" that was unveiled at the 2006 Tokyo Game Show and that they had a card board cut out of Emelianenko Fedor for promotional purposes. 4gamer.net (Japanese site) also had a interview with Jung Ryool about him wanting to promote a PRIDE show in South Korea.

http://www.rbbtoday.com/cgi-bin/news/pict/20060926/34300/jpg/34300-CYK004.html
Last edited by PizzaChef at 2006-10-19 13:40:38 GMT

[AHM]

Does anyone have a feed for Pride Real Deal tonight? Please PM me if you do.

[TheGeneralsDaughter]

Does anyone have a feed for Pride Real Deal tonight? Please PM me if you do.

I'd like to get the feed as well. Thanks.

[MikeT]

Did anyone manage to get it? If so please pm me.

[james21000]

Good show so far.

[Nish]

Best part is all the UFC bashing by the announcers and in the fighter descriptions

[TuRTtle]

Defenitly one of the best MMA events I have seen. No real upsets, everything went pretty much as predicted. Lets hope Silva calling out Chuck wasnt just some bull shit.

[TheGeneralsDaughter]

I agree that the fights were great. However, some tweaking needs to be done to the production to make it more U.S. friendly. Namely, get rid of that faggot announcer dude. The chick is eccentric, but I can deal with her. The dude, no fucking way. And for fuck sake, can they at least get someone that can look at a card and tell the difference between 5'11" and 5'1" tall? Love the fights, hate the announcing.

[Kramer25]

That ring announcer was the worst thing about the show, by far!

Can he fuck up any more names???

Great fights, better than anything I've seen UFC put on in months

[T-Bone]

The woman was very distracting and I hope she doesn't last. There is no "r" in Coleman, there is no reason to roll an "r" in Coleman. Production value will have to change a bit, but I liked the Japanese feel. Showing the entire 3rd round of the Belfort fight during the half hour break was not cool. Training videos and such hold attention much better, but I understand.

I really enjoy the trend of less time in the guard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but without the elbow option its not as dominant a postion. The variation of submission attempts was very nice.

Long time since I've seen Randleman, he's a tough fucker. Have to give him that much.

Overall good show, look forward to a cross promotion in the future.

[jkc0303]

I have gone back and forth on this dude, but the best line by far of the night:

"I want to apologize to all of the ladies out there for being out of shape. I was on the atkins diet, but I ate too many fucking carbs. I will see you at Pure."

[aarons]

Hey guys,

http://208.101.9.229:4000/listen.pls

Open that in winamp. It will replay the pride fight over and over for the next few days. I can also put some up on youtube if anybody wants them.

Great event. Go Pride!

As promised:

lawler v villasenor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6yEjj9jc3E

butterbean v o'haire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jLhjT3Qsm8

shogun v randleman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKH61VcjpmU

[aarons]

fedor v coleman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNnBHBzOpsU

[Shua]

I agree that the fights were great. However, some tweaking needs to be done to the production to make it more U.S. friendly. Namely, get rid of that faggot announcer dude. The chick is eccentric, but I can deal with her. The dude, no fucking way. And for fuck sake, can they at least get someone that can look at a card and tell the difference between 5'11" and 5'1" tall? Love the fights, hate the announcing.

Totally agree. The fights were amazing. Production left a little to be desired. I wasn’t really that intrigued by most of the match ups (thought they were going to be a little lopsided) but got the fights anyway. Most of them turned out well and Pride did a pretty good job of introducing some of its fighters to the US public.

[aarons]

The rest of the fights...


Pawel Nastula vs. Josh Barnett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHNA7RRBBJ0

Vitor Belfort vs. Dan Henderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTjj_Gv1N0k

Yosuke Nishijima vs. Phil Baroni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqz7XLl4hZg

[TuRTtle]

What was up with the no elbows to the head rule?

[Shua]

What was up with the no elbows to the head rule?

Pride doesn't allow elbows to the head on the ground. I personally love the rule because you don't see fights stopped due to cuts when nothing is wrong to the guy.

[Bizznatch]

I also agree that no elbows on the ground is a solid rule strictly because it stops the lay and pray 15 minute ground and pound from the guard fights. You can knee on the ground in Pride (if the fight is in Japan and not Las Vegas) so there is more incentive to pass guard.

The only thing more boring than the Sherk / Florian fight was Sylvia Arlovski 3. Granted, Sherk is a great wrestler and had a torn rotator cuff and had to basically rely on the GnP to win, it just seemed obvious that he wasen't trying to finish him. Regardless, 25 minutes of GnP is not my idea of an exciting fight.

[james21000]

I thought the rules sucked. I like kicking on the ground because that is what happens in the real world and I watch Pride because it is more realistic because of this. I think the Randleman fight would have been much different if he could have been kicking the heck out of Shogun when he was going for the leg locks. Does anyone know if Randleman has any lig/tendon damage from the leg locks?

[uncreative]

I thought the rules sucked. I like kicking on the ground because that is what happens in the real world and I watch Pride because it is more realistic because of this. I think the Randleman fight would have been much different if he could have been kicking the heck out of Shogun when he was going for the leg locks. Does anyone know if Randleman has any lig/tendon damage from the leg locks?
He must at least have some broken bones from Rua twisting his ankle around... you could hear Randleman screaming. He tapped pretty quick on the kneebar, but it might've been too late. Nothing's shown up on MMAweekly yet tho, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Nish]

The reason that pride doesn't allow elbows is because elbows allow for someone who may not be as skillfull to land a lucky cut and win the fight due to it.

[AnotherName]

The reason that pride doesn't allow elbows is because elbows allow for someone who may not be as skillfull to land a lucky cut and win the fight due to it.

or allow someone that is very good at throwing elbows to end a fight early from a, on the whole, minor injury.

I like Pride's rules better than the UFC's, I wish the US's athletic commissions would review and change the point system and allow the Pride style stomps and knees.

[james21000]

I prefer the fights in Japan because of the better rules. I could rant on all the BS legislation/regulation from early in MMA(Senator from Ariz) but hey. I am hoping that some state will change the rules and them they could reap the benefits of a Pride show in their state or Canada. Unfortunately the clout of the MMA lobby is small.

[uncreative]

I prefer the fights in Japan because of the better rules. I could rant on all the BS legislation/regulation from early in MMA(Senator from Ariz) but hey. I am hoping that some state will change the rules and them they could reap the benefits of a Pride show in their state or Canada. Unfortunately the clout of the MMA lobby is small.
Typically, most states will just adopt whatever rules Nevada and New Jersey settle on... MMA is pretty much stuck on the current rules in the US. I much prefer Japanese shows simply because of the rules and ring. I'm not a fan of the cage... way too gimmicky.

[FNG]

I thought Sherk v Florien was an awesome display of wrestling technique and power.

War Sherk

[AnotherName]

War Sherk


Please dont bring that Sherdog crap here.

The Sherk v Florian fight was exciting in the first round but quickly became a boring lay'n'pray. I understand Sherk tore a rotator cuff and had to protect the cut on his forehead, but the fight was still not entertaining outside the copious amounts of blood. I am looking forward to seeing Sherk fight again since he does have the potential to become a great and exciting fighter.

[aarons]

Please dont bring that Sherdog crap here.

The Sherk v Florian fight was exciting in the first round but quickly became a boring lay'n'pray. I understand Sherk tore a rotator cuff and had to protect the cut on his forehead, but the fight was still not entertaining outside the copious amounts of blood. I am looking forward to seeing Sherk fight again since he does have the potential to become a great and exciting fighter.

Agree. That fight got lame with all the lay'n'pray.

[HypnoToad]

Stephan Bonnar took steroids (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=6030)

I surely didn't see this coming. The suspension isn't overly long, but who knows what the UFC's attitude will be on accepting him back with open arms. I think that perhaps he was so driven to put down Griffen he tried to take a shortcut. After all, this guy was damn close to getting all of the fame from the first Ultimate Fighter.

[Nish]

anyone watching Bushido right now?

[uncreative]

Bisping vs. Schafer for the TUF finale this weekend is officially off... something to do with visa issues. I didn't think that English citizens even needed a visa to get in the US?

[Nish]

its likely being moved to the December PPV

[james21000]

I went to a local show to watch a guy from my gym fight a while back and was impressed by the quality of the fighters and fights, it was a small local show in Atlanta. I was wondering what the people here at the TMMB thought of the quality of fights at the smaller local shows?

[lhprop1]

I went to a local show to watch a guy from my gym fight a while back and was impressed by the quality of the fighters and fights, it was a small local show in Atlanta. I was wondering what the people here at the TMMB thought of the quality of fights at the smaller local shows?

I've been to a few of them because one of my buddies fights. From what I've found, most of them around here are ground and pound (mainly due to lack of actual fight experience) and are over in under two minutes. You don't get a lot of diversity of style that you would with some of the top national shows.

My buddy's last 3 fights have all been the main event, and he's ended all of them by KO or TKO in the first round.

[Shua]

I went to a local show to watch a guy from my gym fight a while back and was impressed by the quality of the fighters and fights, it was a small local show in Atlanta. I was wondering what the people here at the TMMB thought of the quality of fights at the smaller local shows?

I have been to numerous local shows in Northern California. They have all been headlined by someone who has fought in UFC or Pride. The sport is huge here compared to most of the country so we get some quality fighters. The fights tend to be a little better than the PPV in my opinion since the fighters are hungry and trying to prove they deserve to be at that level. I love going to live shows.

[T-Bone]

Wow, all judges scored the Serra-Lytle fight 30-27. Even though it was alternating I was shocked. Tight fight, didn't see that coming.

[siodine]

Wow, all judges scored the Serra-Lytle fight 30-27. Even though it was alternating I was shocked. Tight fight, didn't see that coming.

I'm guessing it was because Serra controlled Lytle most of the fight - even though Serra didn't do any damage.

[Bizznatch]

Are you kidding me?
He stomped his foot like 300 times.

But seriously, Serra controlled the fight and imposed his will on Lytle, even if he couldn't get the takedown. Good takedown defense by Lytle, but he just couldn't muster any offense when they were standing. I think Serra won the fight, but it definitely wasn't going away. I have no clue how that one guy scored it 30-27 Lytle.

[Brad]

Any thoughts on UFC 65? I think it's a great card. Especially compared to the watered down cards we've been getting.

Vera vs. Mir should be exciting.
Joe Stevenson is just off a big win over Yves Edwards.
Local faves James Irvin and Nick Diaz should put on a show.
Get to see if Brad Imes had improved any.
Oh yeah, and then there are two title fights.

Anyone else going?

[Blowmeup]

Not going but here are my thoughts:

GSP over Matt Hughes. - Matt is a beast and dominant but he will not be able to hang with GSP. Georges is too athletic and skilled at this point for Matt to overwhelm him, which is his strength.

Vera over Mir. - This fight could go either way: Exciting Vera win or boring fight and sluggish Mir victory. I think Mir has lost it, and this will be the last step in his decline as a fighter.

JoeDaddy over (insert tomato cans name here). - Hopefully Joe can make this exciting and not just a smothering dominant wrestling match.

Silvia over Monson. - This might be the most lopsided and worst match-up. A lot is made of Monsons grappling but he will not take the champ. Tim is a dork but he is a bad-ass, ass-kicking dork.

Nick Diaz over (whats his name). - Another tomato can being thrown at a talented, yet under performing fighter that the UFC is trying to rebuild. Look for a 1st rd. sub.

This fight card has the potential of being a GREAT card. Lets hope it lives up to the hype.

[aarons]

Holy shit! Not to sidetrack off the great UFC match this weekend, but have you guys seen the Pride card on New Year's Eve?

Thursday, November 16, 2006
by Sherdog.com Staff

While no match-ups were announced for PRIDE's New Year's Eve card, Dream Stage Entertainment on Thursday revealed a murderer's row of mixed martial artists scheduled to compete Dec. 31 at the Saitama Super Arena in Tokyo.

Each current PRIDE champion (Fedor Emelianenko , Wanderlei Silva , Dan Henderson and Takanori Gomi , one former king (Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira ), six Grand Prix champs (Emelianenko, Silva, Henderson, Gomi, Mirko Filipovic and Mauricio Rua), as well as fan favorites Mark Hunt, Josh Barnett , Hidehiko Yoshida and Kazuyuki Fujita will participate.

That is going to be a very entertaining event!

Also here is the USA pride poster for Feb:

http://www.seeknetusa.com/dev/PRIDE/pride_mailmaga/111506/img/pride33.jpg

Now if only LIddell would be in that poster too..Oh well, never happening.

[Caducus]

Vera over Mir. - This fight could go either way: Exciting Vera win or boring fight and sluggish Mir victory. I think Mir has lost it, and this will be the last step in his decline as a fighter.



I'm pretty excited for this fight. Vera was my old trainer before I moved gyms and watching him move up through the ranks so quickly has been bad ass. I expected him to walk through Mir's fat ass after seeing Mir's last fight. I have to admit though, as far as physical appearence, Mir seems to have shed that spare tire he was sporting. The promo pictures (which I assume are recent... maybe from the weigh in) that the UFC posted have Mir looking pretty ripped.

[clkx88]

Anyone know of a feed for the UFC PPV tonight?

[AnotherName]

GSP has accomplished my dream...he kicked Matt Hughes right in the balls!

[lhprop1]

GSP has accomplished my dream...he kicked Matt Hughes right in the balls!

Literally. Twice.

I still think GSP caught Hughes off his guard. Hughes was going for a double-leg when he landed that kick. He purely out-smarted him.

I'm anxious to see the rematch. It'll be one of the few rematches that is truly warrented.

[Bizznatch]

GSP thoroughly dominated Matt Hughes tonight. Not only did he end it decisively in the 2nd round with that sweet kick to Matt's skull, he had it won at the end of the first with that Superman punch. Matt Hughes' inability to stand and trade with an opponent was exposed, and he lost.

Is it just me or is every Tim Sylvia fight from here on out going to suck? It's like he knows that he's the champ and that to lose the title, someone has to take it away. You can't fight an even fight against the champ and get a decision victory or a draw. Not saying that Monson did that tonight, but it's just common sense. Monson was tailor made to be knocked the fuck out by Tim Sylvia, and the best he could do was kick him in the ass for 2 of the 5 rounds. I hope the UFC gets a couple quality heavyweights to compete against his big hick ass that will actually push the pace. Maybe then I'll see an entertaining Tim "The Decision" Sylvia fight.

[AnotherName]

Tim "The Decision" Sylvia fight.


its pretty bad when you've been the champion (on and off) for 3 years and the crowd boos you and chants your opponent's name. I hate Tim Sylvia, he fights to not lose and seems to posses no killer instinct or interest in anything other than holding on to his giant golden ego prop.

[Nish]

Big question right now (at least in my mind), what the UFC is going to do with Hughes. I see 3 possibilities

1. Hughes vs Penn
2. Hughes vs GSP
3. Hughes vs some can

If he sticks with his plan to retire after his UFC contract runs out, he is essentially throwing away the chance for a rubber match with GSP because the odds of the UFC giving him the fight and then letting him retire right after are slim. Hughes vs Penn is pretty self-explanatory but i'd really like to see Hughes vs Diego as well

[TheDog]

Literally. Twice.

I still think GSP caught Hughes off his guard. Hughes was going for a double-leg when he landed that kick. He purely out-smarted him.

I'm anxious to see the rematch. It'll be one of the few rematches that is truly warrented.

I'm still surprised that anybody thought Hughes was going to beat St. Pierre. He was smart enough to incorporate BJ Penn's "box the bull" strategy against Hughes (and also stuffed his takedowns to keep it standing, though I think Pierre could easily match Hughes on the ground too), with the difference that Pierre clearly looked physically stronger, had more skill then Hughes, and had the cardio to go 5 rounds. I don't think Hughes has a chance in hell in beating St. Pierre again, unless Pierre were to make a BIG mistake and Hughes pulled a submission out of his ass. St. Pierre was a step away from making that match up look like Silva vs. Franklin.

[aarons]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETrAIe7zHes

No sound.

GO GSP!!!

[AnotherName]

I'm still surprised that anybody thought Hughes was going to beat St. Pierre. He was smart enough to incorporate BJ Penn's "box the bull" strategy against Hughes (and also stuffed his takedowns to keep it standing, though I think Pierre could easily match Hughes on the ground too), with the difference that Pierre clearly looked physically stronger, had more skill then Hughes, and had the cardio to go 5 rounds. I don't think Hughes has a chance in hell in beating St. Pierre again, unless Pierre were to make a BIG mistake and Hughes pulled a submission out of his ass. St. Pierre was a step away from making that match up look like Silva vs. Franklin.


I think the big difference was GSP's speed and agility. Hughes is fairly slow, he has a quick explosive shot, but he moves more like a Joe Frazier than Muhammed Ali.

I watched the fight again and GSP just sticks Matt and moves out of range too fast for a counter. Even when Matt does get to the clinch, GSP is just too quick to adjust his balance and scramble out of danger. I think BJ (if the right BJ shows up) has a better chance to beat GSP than Hughes will ever posses, simply because of difference in quickness between Matt and St. Pierre.

[Bizznatch]

I agree that GSP is a much quicker fighter than Matt Hughes, but I don't think it was the biggest factor in Hughes losing the fight. Matt Hughes is not a very good striker. Hughes has improved to the point where he is decent stabnding, but no one would say that he has heavy hands like BJ Penn or that he is the complete package like GSP.

Matt Hughes lost that fight because GSP is a much more well rounded fighter, and he imposed his will on Matt. In most of Matt's victories he pretty much took the fight to the floor and beat up on a guy that wasen't as good of a wrestler as he was. The only person that I can remember being fairly active from the bottom was BJ Penn, and I personally believe that if BJ didn't hurt his ribs in that fight, he probably would have won.

Moral of the story, if Matt Hughes can't get you to the ground (GSP2) or can't control you on the ground (BJ Penn2, sans the third round) then he's not very good. Fortunately for Matt, it looks like there are only two guys out there good enough to force him out of his game.

GSP is easily the most dynamic and well rounded fighter in the division. The only way I can really see him losing is if he gets caught with a submission ala his loss to Hughes in their first meeting. Easily my favorite fighter. Solid guy, very humble, and absolutely an amazing guy to watch.

[rashkeyd]

It has apparently been confirmed that GSP will fight Matt Serra at UFC 67. I don't think there is any doubt that Matt Serra is about to get a beatdown of epic proportions. Here is a link to the story http://www.tsn.ca/headlines/news_story/?ID=185063

[Nish]

Diego vs GSP/Hughes would be such an epic fight in my opinion

[Mike Gill]

Diego vs GSP/Hughes would be such an epic fight in my opinion

Only if by epic you mean Diego gets Ko'ed in the first round. Here is his record since starting TUF:

Win Karo Parisyan Decision (Unanimous) UFC-Fight Night 6 8/17/2006 3 5:00

Win John Alessio Decision (Unanimous) UFC 60-Hughes vs. Gracie 5/27/2006 3 5:00

Win Nick Diaz Decision (Unanimous) UFC-Ultimate Fighter 2 Finale 11/5/2005 3 5:00

Win Brian Gassaway Submission (Strikes) UFC 54-Boiling Point 8/20/2005 2 1:56

Win Kenny Florian TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:49

Win Jorge Santiago Decision (Unanimous) KOTC 36-Unfinished Business 6/12/2004 3 5:00

with one, maybe 2 exceptions he has been fighting B level fighters.

Diaz and Parysian have been his 2 toughest opponents. Diaz has been struggling lately and yeah, he really did get over on Kyro. But GSP just owned Matt Hughes, who most people think hasa been the most dominant 170lber ever, distroyed Frank Trigg, has also beaten BJ Penn, Karyro and a slew of others.

[DannyMac]

Hell if Parisyan had better submissions he would have beaten Diego in the first round. He beat the shit out of Sanchez in the first round of that fight, but he couldn't finish after some nice takedowns.

I think a true champion calibre fighter is going to beat the fuck out of him.

[Gylius]

I'm actually a Diego fan, but I don't think he could beat Hughes or GSP now, and probably not BJ Penn, unless he decided to not fight, which he is liable to do.

Diego's best asset is his relentlessness. He never gives up and he always has energy. From start to finish he's trying to win so he's always an entertaining fighter to watch, for that reason. He's also pretty good on the ground. He went 10 minutes with Marcelo Garcia at ADCC, which is no joke since Garcia 'never' loses submission grappling matches in his weight class.

However his weakness is his standup. I don't think he's taken his standup very seriously to the point where he could be competitive with GSP or BJ that way. While Hughes' standup isn't great, it's probably better than Diego's. So in a fight against GSP, Diego would get knocked out, and probably early. GSP has very good stand up. In a fight against BJ Penn, he would either lose early (first round), or possibly sneak a win like GSP, when BJ decides to stop fighting completely. And with Hughes, if he gets taken down he'll probably lose because no one really has to worry about getting knocked out against him.

All in all, does Diego have talent? Absolutely. But in my opinion he's about 2 years away from being a legitimate contender to actually have the belt. He's already somewhat of a contender just because of who he's beat, but not a contender to win it.